Bring back auto mechanics class

[philipswanson]

Yes, they need to teach many blue color trades in high school again. Not to work on your own car so much but as a vocation where they have the specialized tools. A general knowledge is required before using those tools in any trade. Many college grads are unemployable because they have no knowledge of blue collar work which is often paying more.

[rotorwrench]

The schools I went to had industrial arts, carpentry, and vocational agriculture classes but all were dropped due to the student base losing interest or becoming unruly to the point of loss of instructor control. It takes a special kind of instructor to keep the kids in line and interested in these subjects and most just couldn't cut it by the late 70s. Parents were more of a problem than the students in some respects. They have to control the discipline or there will be none. They just won't let the instructors discipline kids much at all anymore. It has to come from the home front.

[bobH]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

When I ordered the radiator for my '39 p/u from Brassworks I was told they were 7-8 weeks out for filling orders. Lee told me if I had a problem with that I should talk to my local school board and get them to start offering shop classes again. He said it was next to impossible to find qualified help. On the other hand I bough some flathead stuff from the auto shop teacher at Santa Monica High School a while ago. When I went to the shop building to pick everything up I was amazed to only see 1 or 2 ricers. Everything else in the shop was older stuff that they were actually doing major repairs on or fabrication/modifications. Maybe there is some hope.

Small world... A long time friend of mine was the one who originally started and set=up the auto shop at Santa Monica High. He and I worked at the same small garage in the 1950's, and he left our shop to take the job with SMH. We are still good friends, and both long retired. One of his memorable achievements was training kids to excel at the Chrysler diagnostic and repair competition for HS kids, back in the early 60's, I believe. His teams won the event multiple times.

[cmbrucew]

I attended high school in southern Illinois and they offered wood shop, one hour a day for the first two years, then three hours a day five days a week. They finished a house every two years. An auto shop the same, we could work on the school project, (1940 Ford tudoor) or your own sled. They also had a 4H class that covered a lot of trades for farmers.
I wish I could have taken them all.


Bruce

[frnkeore]

If you listened to the State Of the Union tonight, there may be help on the way. One of Trumps goals, is to put vocational classes back into public education.

I grew up and went to high school in Orange Co, CA ('59-'62) and took auto shop in my Jr year and metal shop, in my Sr year. I only wish that I could have taken a shop class in the other two. I took wood shop in 8th grade (I'm not into wood) so, I can see no reason for the lack of it in 9th & 10th.

Finding teachers shouldn't be a problem, in the 70's, I checked into it and all it took, at that time, in CA was a AA and 6 or 7 years in the trade, to get a teaching certificate. I had 8 years but, decided against it because I had a excellent job. Not to mention, who in there right mind, wants to mess with teens

I think computer class are good, too. I wish I had taken a typing class when in HS. I still type with one finger!!!

What we need in schools is reading first (lower grades),then math second and US and Constitutional History third. You get your basic English from reading (I don't know why I had to take it so many years) but, for the professional minded, make it a vocational part of school.

So, I think HS, should be mostly vocational and a serious venture, in what you can do for yourself, once your out.

[Tony, NY]

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My son-in-law teaches high school automotive at a county cooperative. Students come from high schools in the surrounding area. They have an excellent facility. He is into old school hot rods and is looking for a project Model A roadster. The program is doing well and an even better new location is in the works.

[Ziggster]

True story.

A couple weeks back, my youngest daughter and I are at Canadian Tire (large auto/ home supply chain in Cabada) at the parts counter waiting for the staffer to check on supply of a 6V battery for my Allen Syncrograph. A young women (late teens/ early twenties) comes in and goes to the auto service counter. I see them wave her over to where we are. A young man (her age) shows up at the counter to help her. She wants wiper blades for her car, but she initially got mixed up with year and model of her car (2010 Mazda 3) by saying a Mazda 10. After they sort that out, the young man runs off into the store, and grabs her the wiper blades. I'm thinking WTF. If that was me, they would have kindly pointed me in the direction of the aisle with the wiper blades. But it gets better. She them asks them if she can have the wiper blades installed. As we are leaving, we saw her pulling into the large service bay.
Now I understand that not everyone knows or cares about how to install wiper blades, even men, but I'm sure, at the end of her ordeal, she would have paid close to $100 for the blades and installation.
I then asked my 16 year old daughter, who is just learning to drive, if she knew how to change the wiper fluid in the car. Of course she said she had no clue, so I told her that I would show her. Even getting her to figure out how to pump gas and use the credit card is challenging.

[Frank Miller]

I think EPA regs and what not has hurt the hobby to some degree. Computers, however have really helped it. Don't think so? You're reading this. Electronic devices can give us feedback as to how our flathead is running like never before.
That said, I volunteer at Pro Shaper building stuff. It's like shop class. I've been learning all kinds of cool stuff, running bridgeports lathes and TIG welding. I'm lucky this is available to me.
The automobile basics will never change. At least 4 cycle engines won't. In spite of electronics there are pistons, valves and spark plugs doing what they have always done. Pretty much every job out there is dynamic and companies need t o provide constant training. Cars are no different. Even the cashier at your local convenience store may need training to use a new register.
There will always be a segment of people who will never master anything mechanical. They get anxiety seeing some assembly required. If cars never got automatic transmissions, electric starters and automatic spark advance, I wonder how many drivers we would have. It's obvious doing away with the carbide headlight cheated Darwin.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The schools I went to had industrial arts, carpentry, and vocational agriculture classes but all were dropped due to the student base losing interest or becoming unruly to the point of loss of instructor control. It takes a special kind of instructor to keep the kids in line and interested in these subjects and most just couldn't cut it by the late 70s. Parents were more of a problem than the students in some respects. They have to control the discipline or there will be none. They just won't let the instructors discipline kids much at all anymore. It has to come from the home front.

Having taught high school metal shop, wood shop and drafting from 1967-2006, I can honestly say that Rotorwrench is correct. Vocational classes are the "dumping ground" for disruptive students and it's takes a special kind of individual to teach them and deal with the helicopter parents.

I still run into former (now adults with families) students who remind how much they liked my classes. Sadly, the money allocated to the teacher to run their classes is pitiful. I used to get $600 a year and would visit local industry with my pick up truck asking for free scraps of metal, wood and plastic. Plus, you always end up spending your own money for supplies. That gets old year after year as your class size increases but, your budget does not. I always had about 28 students (boys and girls) per class, three classes per day.

Today's teachers must deal with drugs, I phones, pushy parents, weak administrators and political correctness. Most parents today have no idea about middle and high school student behavior within the school. They think it's the way it was when they were in school. Not true! The rules have changed as society has changed. Young folks know this. That's why there's a teacher shortage.

[rotorwrench]

My hats off to you for lasting as many years as you did. You must have been doing something right for it to carry all the way into the 2000s.

Some city junior colleges have outreach classes for vocational skills. The key is having students that want to learn. Those will be the best ones. Nobody forces folks to take these type courses or any college course for those that have the time/funds. It's a lot different if they have to pay for it or if they volunteer their own time. There aren't too many colleges that have what Mcpherson college has going on. The site says it all. They are the only one.
https://www.mcpherson.edu/programs/auto-restoration/

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Having taught high school metal shop, wood shop and drafting from 1967-2006, I can honestly say that Rotorwrench is correct. Vocational classes are the "dumping ground" for disruptive students and it's takes a special kind of individual to teach them and deal with the helicopter parents.

I still run into former (now adults with families) students who remind how much they liked my classes. Sadly, the money allocated to the teacher to run their classes is pitiful. I used to get $600 a year and would visit local industry with my pick up truck asking for free scraps of metal, wood and plastic. plus, you always end up spending your own money for supplies. That gets old year after year as your class size increases but, your budget does not. I always had about 28 students (boys and girls) per class, three classes per day.

Today's teachers must deal with drugs, I phones, pushy parents, weak administrators and political correctness. Most parents today have no idea about middle and high school student behavior within the school. They think it's the way it was when they were in school. Not true! The rules have changed as society has changed. Young folks know this. That's why there's a teacher shortage.

Wow! That's a great run! I'm approaching my 20th year in education and I think I'll be getting out at 25. I'll have 25 years in & be 55 years old, magic numbers for retirement in NJ.

[JSeery]

Mcpherson college has an auto restoration program, that is where I have picked up some of my projects. They were rejects they considered beyond saving!

[51woodie]

I majored in auto mechanics when I went to high school in the late 60's in Northern Ontario. A grade 12 grad got a 2 year credit off the 5 year apprenticeship. How could that be? Our classroom had all the latest shop equipment north of Toronto, with all the tools and diagnostic equipment that most shops in the area didn't have. There was even an in-floor dyno that we could test cars on pre and post tune up. Lots of teachers had their cars serviced or repaired in the shop. When I went to work at a GM dealership as an apprentice, I was the only one of 12 mechanics, other that the front end guy, that knew how to run the alignment machine. I had to show one of the mechanics what the proper gear mesh pattern was on a differential he was replacing bearings on. I visited the shop a few years ago, and it was quite disappointing. A lot of tools and test equipment was gone, there was an old junker sitting off to the side, covered in dust. When my three daughters got close to driving age, I taught them how to check and service a car. They did fan belt changes, oil change and greasing, battery changes, wheel bearings, brake jobs, changing flats and a lot of other mechanical stuff. As each one went to college, their "going away gift" was a small tool box with all the basic tools needed to do minor repairs to their cars or stuff around the apartment or dorm room. They were also taught basic carpentry, plumbing and electrical. I had to do this as there were no options for them in high school. Today, they are more "handymen" than the men in their lives. Sad to see the lack of trades training, but as tradespersons become more scarce their rates of pay will increase. This will hopefully entice more young people to go into the trades.

[VeryTangled]

It's not completely gone, but it sure is different.

Here's a 3 minute video describing the auto shop I teach in when I'm not teaching computer repair classes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLhZa6wbN10

[TJ]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Having taught high school metal shop, wood shop and drafting from 1967-2006, I can honestly say that Rotorwrench is correct. Vocational classes are the "dumping ground" for disruptive students and it's takes a special kind of individual to teach them and deal with the helicopter parents.

I still run into former (now adults with families) students who remind how much they liked my classes. Sadly, the money allocated to the teacher to run their classes is pitiful. I used to get $600 a year and would visit local industry with my pick up truck asking for free scraps of metal, wood and plastic. plus, you always end up spending your own money for supplies. That gets old year after year as your class size increases but, your budget does not. I always had about 28 students (boys and girls) per class, three classes per day.

Today's teachers must deal with drugs, I phones, pushy parents, weak administrators and political correctness. Most parents today have no idea about middle and high school student behavior within the school. They think it's the way it was when they were in school. Not true! The rules have changed as society has changed. Young folks know this. That's why there's a teacher shortage.

You are exactly right about shop classes being a dumping ground for unruly kids. Had three good friends who were shop teachers at our local high school. They spent most of their time trying to discipline these kids an teach them something. the good kids were being cheated out of the teacher's time. As these teachers retired the shop classes were shut down. In this wonderful state of California the legislature recently passed legislation that you can no longer suspend an unruly student. Why anybody would want to be a teacher in this state is anybody's guess.

[Frank Miller]

Originally Posted by TJ

You are exactly right about shop classes being a dumping ground for unruly kids. Had three good friends who were shop teachers at our local high school. They spent most of their time trying to discipline these kids an teach them something. the good kids were being cheated out of the teacher's time. As these teachers retired the shop classes were shut down. In this wonderful state of California the legislature recently passed legislation that you can no longer suspend an unruly student. Why anybody would want to be a teacher in this state is anybody's guess.

You guys need to get with the times. When I was in school the underachievers went to trade school. Now you have to have good grades to get into trade school. Apparently parents found out that kids getting out of trade school were making in 4 years what their colle educated kid could never make. Now thy are fighting to get them an education that is worth something. In the meantime these kids with skills but not book smart are being left behind.

[TonyM]

Auto shop (mechanical and body) still offered at my High School.

They even have their own building. Here is a photo of the car show they have there.

In the background on the right is the Vocational Building where my HS has several bays for their auto shop.

[Newc]

Hi; shop classes is the place I wanted to be in the 60's. Then the School Board sold off the equipment. Now the district is trying to rebuild, but can't guarentee it won't happen again- the sell off. Newc

[Gary troxel]

Our local community College still has a mechanics class here in Mount Vernon, WA.

[tubman]

I guess I am not too worried about the lack of these subjects being taught in high school. As above, I think that they belong in places such as community colleges and vocational schools. In my opinion, there is hardly enough time to provide a basic education that all people need to get by in this world in traditional high school. Allowing some malcontents and underachievers to avoid basic education by opting for an auto mechanics or other "trade" curiculum causes them to miss out on a lot of knowledge they need to get by in our ever more complicated world.

I have read with interest the discipline and motivation problems experienced by those who have actually taught in these situations. I have no doubt that it is an actual problem, as I saw a bunch of this when I was in high school shop class in the fifties. Guys did things like welding all of the tools they could to the metal-topped welding table when the instructor wasn't looking. No doubt, as some have mentioned, it's worse today.

These types of courses belong in their own segment of higher education rather than in high school. That way, the attendees are there because they have a desire to be there, and also a financial stake in their education, so lack of motivation and pranks will be minimized.