The Ford Barn

Chris · 04-11-2012, 12:21 AM

Hey guys, I am tearing into my 1934 rear end to install a set of 35-36 Ford 3.54 ring and pinion. I know the procedure there, here is my question: I tore the 34 rear end down yesterday and it is in a lot worse shape then I was hoping. All the gears inside are pitted pretty good. Luckily the ring, pinion, diff bearings and spider gears in the 36 rear end are all in excellent shape. I will need to get some 32-34 pinion bearings and race.

On my axles, the gears on the end are pretty pitted and have some nasty wear. I am assuming they are junk...but could a guy file on them a little and clean them up? The rest of the shafts are in great shape, just the gears are the trouble areas.Trust me if I had a better set of axles I would use em, but I do not. I do not want to run them if they are useless...just trying to weigh my options. This is the first rear end I have ever tore into...and I am learning fast!

Also, if anyone has a set of axles or a good used or NOS 32-34 pinion race I would REALLY appreciate it! I do not want to put Chinese bearings/races in this thing. Trying to get this thing back together and it is fighting me!!

Chris · 04-11-2012, 01:06 AM

One more thing...will a 32 4 cylinder rear end (early type with the round pinion flange) have axles that will work for me? My Dad has one that I can use but I do not know if the axles will interchange.

ford38v8 · 04-11-2012, 01:23 AM

Chris, you're concerned about the wrong end of the axles. Those gears are fine, they need only to engage the spider gear, and turn only slowly as you go round a corner. What you need to examine closely is the other end, namely the axle nut threads, and especially the keyway. The axle nut threads can be way far gone and still be serviceable, but the keyway must be pristine with no indication of a crack at the inboard end. The smallest crack there will have your wheel go off one otherwise fine day.

Fibber Mcgee · 04-11-2012, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Chris, you're concerned about the wrong end of the axles. Those gears are fine, they need only to engage the spider gear, and turn only slowly as you go round a corner. What you need to examine closely is the other end, namely the axle nut threads, and especially the keyway. The axle nut threads can be way far gone and still be serviceable, but the keyway must be pristine with no indication of a crack at the inboard end. The smallest crack there will have your wheel go off one otherwise fine day.

I agree its alot harder to find axles with good keyway and threads.If that end good I'd hang on to them.

Chris · 04-11-2012, 10:14 AM

The bummer about these is the outer ends are the shafts are perfect! I'm gonna look for a different set of axles regardless. What is the disadvantage to running a set like this? Will it just make noise or will it eventually eat itself because the hardening is gone?

Note in the pic each tooth has a wear mark dug into it as well as the pits. I don't know why these wore so bad to begin with

rotorwrench · 04-11-2012, 10:33 AM

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The wear looks worse than the pitting for sure. That would lead to excessive backlash in the spider sets. That rear axle must have done a lot of hard cornering in its service life

Bruce Lancaster · 04-11-2012, 10:57 AM

The good book (1938 rebuild chapter of Service bulletins) says .010 backlash, measured at keyway with one axle in vise and twisting the other. Then check endplay, .015 max on either shaft. lash realtes to the gear wear, endplay to other surfaces within differential. I would accept some excess on 80 year old parts, but I fear you might have play measurable with a yardstick...
You only nead to assemble inner case and spiders to check this out.

Richard (EV8G) · 04-11-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

One more thing...will a 32 4 cylinder rear end (early type with the round pinion flange) have axles that will work for me? My Dad has one that I can use but I do not know if the axles will interchange.

The axles in the early rear are the same as Model A and ARE NOT usable in the late32-34 rear, or any other later rear. In fact, that applies to all of the other parts in an early 32 "B" rear, except for the seals, filler and drain plugs and some of the hardware...

When overhauling a rear, it is preferable to use all nice parts since it is a major PITA to have to re-do the job. Trouble is the #18-4235 axles that are NOS or excellent used are scarce. The other guys are definately correct that the tapered/outboard end is critical. We visually inspect them and if they look ok, take them and have them magna-fluxed to be absolutely sure there are no cracks.

As John Deats explained to me MANY years ago, when the axle nuts are not sufficiently torqued, the hub can "work" on the tapered end and key, causing the keyway to spread and ultimately develop a crack at the inner end of the axle keyway. This will eventually cause the axle to "fail" which can be a catastrophe. The old-days racers used "safety hubs" to prevent loss of the wheel/hub/drum when the outer end of the axle snaps off.

I would try to find some better axles, but you may not be able to...
Also check the differential case, as they are frequently broken where the "snout" for the carrier bearing joins the main part of the housing. The spider gears may also be pitted or badly worn where they rotate on the "cross".

Welcome to the fun job of rear-end rebuilding!

Chris · 04-11-2012, 12:33 PM

Thanks everyone. My Dad is a big model T guy and he always said it takes about 10 T rearends to make a good one

I assumed the rear under my car was rebuilt, it looked so nice on the outside and turned nice and sooth...can't always judge a book by it's cover!

Richard, you are right this is a big job and a nice car...I don't want to half ass it. I'll hang onto these as "extras", and think I have loctaed another set.

Mart · 04-11-2012, 12:58 PM

If there's a time restraint, you could build it up like it is, it'll still get you around, and look out for better parts and do the switcheroo at a convenient time.

Not ideal, but you are getting the car ready for a specific event, it would be good to be able to move on to the next thing on the to do list.

Mart.

Pete · 04-11-2012, 02:37 PM

If you lap the axles to the hubs, they will be less likely "fret" and eventually fail.
In the olden dayz we had a parts chaser model A that ran for 20000 miles
with lapped hubs and NO axle keys.

Karl Wolf · 04-11-2012, 03:08 PM

I put a magnet in the fill oil plug, to a) remove and b) find out if there are any- metal chips/ filings circulating in the rear end...
(Good also in case you're running sketchy parts, i.e., I would run those axles if the outer ends were good, maybe put in some other used spider gears)
Karl

40 Deluxe · 04-11-2012, 11:26 PM

Unlikely for axle gears to wear that much in normal cornering. A teenager on a gravel road, on the other hand, leads to much spinning of one rear wheel, thus much gear wear! Or maybe it was a farm car. In the early '50's, my uncle used a Model A to power a grain elevator. He had an adapter welded to one rear wheel to couple it to the elevator. He'd jack up that wheel , put the A in low gear and it'd idle all day elevating oats or corn into the granary.

04-11-2012, 01:06 AM	#2
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? One more thing...will a 32 4 cylinder rear end (early type with the round pinion flange) have axles that will work for me? My Dad has one that I can use but I do not know if the axles will interchange. __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

04-11-2012, 01:23 AM	#3
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? Chris, you're concerned about the wrong end of the axles. Those gears are fine, they need only to engage the spider gear, and turn only slowly as you go round a corner. What you need to examine closely is the other end, namely the axle nut threads, and especially the keyway. The axle nut threads can be way far gone and still be serviceable, but the keyway must be pristine with no indication of a crack at the inboard end. The smallest crack there will have your wheel go off one otherwise fine day. __________________ Alan

04-11-2012, 10:14 AM	#5
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? The bummer about these is the outer ends are the shafts are perfect! I'm gonna look for a different set of axles regardless. What is the disadvantage to running a set like this? Will it just make noise or will it eventually eat itself because the hardening is gone? Note in the pic each tooth has a wear mark dug into it as well as the pits. I don't know why these wore so bad to begin with __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

04-11-2012, 10:33 AM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The wear looks worse than the pitting for sure. That would lead to excessive backlash in the spider sets. That rear axle must have done a lot of hard cornering in its service life

04-11-2012, 10:57 AM	#7
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? The good book (1938 rebuild chapter of Service bulletins) says .010 backlash, measured at keyway with one axle in vise and twisting the other. Then check endplay, .015 max on either shaft. lash realtes to the gear wear, endplay to other surfaces within differential. I would accept some excess on 80 year old parts, but I fear you might have play measurable with a yardstick... You only nead to assemble inner case and spiders to check this out.

04-11-2012, 12:21 AM	#1
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? Hey guys, I am tearing into my 1934 rear end to install a set of 35-36 Ford 3.54 ring and pinion. I know the procedure there, here is my question: I tore the 34 rear end down yesterday and it is in a lot worse shape then I was hoping. All the gears inside are pitted pretty good. Luckily the ring, pinion, diff bearings and spider gears in the 36 rear end are all in excellent shape. I will need to get some 32-34 pinion bearings and race. On my axles, the gears on the end are pretty pitted and have some nasty wear. I am assuming they are junk...but could a guy file on them a little and clean them up? The rest of the shafts are in great shape, just the gears are the trouble areas.Trust me if I had a better set of axles I would use em, but I do not. I do not want to run them if they are useless...just trying to weigh my options. This is the first rear end I have ever tore into...and I am learning fast! Also, if anyone has a set of axles or a good used or NOS 32-34 pinion race I would REALLY appreciate it! I do not want to put Chinese bearings/races in this thing. Trying to get this thing back together and it is fighting me!! __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

04-11-2012, 12:33 PM	#9
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? Thanks everyone. My Dad is a big model T guy and he always said it takes about 10 T rearends to make a good one I assumed the rear under my car was rebuilt, it looked so nice on the outside and turned nice and sooth...can't always judge a book by it's cover! Richard, you are right this is a big job and a nice car...I don't want to half ass it. I'll hang onto these as "extras", and think I have loctaed another set. __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

04-11-2012, 12:58 PM	#10
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? If there's a time restraint, you could build it up like it is, it'll still get you around, and look out for better parts and do the switcheroo at a convenient time. Not ideal, but you are getting the car ready for a specific event, it would be good to be able to move on to the next thing on the to do list. Mart.

04-11-2012, 02:37 PM	#11
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? If you lap the axles to the hubs, they will be less likely "fret" and eventually fail. In the olden dayz we had a parts chaser model A that ran for 20000 miles with lapped hubs and NO axle keys.

04-11-2012, 03:08 PM	#12
Karl Wolf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mill Valley,Ca. Posts: 1,509	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? I put a magnet in the fill oil plug, to a) remove and b) find out if there are any- metal chips/ filings circulating in the rear end... (Good also in case you're running sketchy parts, i.e., I would run those axles if the outer ends were good, maybe put in some other used spider gears) Karl

04-11-2012, 11:26 PM	#13
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,779	Re: Rear end experts, I need your advise! Are these axles junk? Unlikely for axle gears to wear that much in normal cornering. A teenager on a gravel road, on the other hand, leads to much spinning of one rear wheel, thus much gear wear! Or maybe it was a farm car. In the early '50's, my uncle used a Model A to power a grain elevator. He had an adapter welded to one rear wheel to couple it to the elevator. He'd jack up that wheel , put the A in low gear and it'd idle all day elevating oats or corn into the granary.