1934 Spark/ Ignition Issue

[dbtenner]

Hello Ford Barn,

I'm needing some assistance. On Friday I drove my 1934 Roadster for at least an hour or two around town without any issues. Idling at stops, vacuum pressure, shifting and overall operation was just fine. Smooth sailing. Now this morning on Christmas Eve, I drove it around town for maybe 30 minutes and came to a stop at a stop sign (had a bump in the road). Downshifted to first gear and was ready to take off, shifted into second and then in the midst of going into third it died. Could not get it to start after that.

I have gone through the entire fuel delivery system draining the lines. Then cranking to make sure fuel is shown in the filter and consequently the carb. No problem with that. The battery is now dead aftre many attempts starting it. I had my brother try and crank it over earlier, and held a continuity tester on the coil (that goes on the spark plug). NO SPARK after he was hitting the starter.

Any ideas?? I doubt its the condenser or distributor related since I did not touch it. However I did take the side caps (going to the ignition coil) to see the points and then put it back in and closed the wire latch. Need some guidance please.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by dbtenner

Hello Ford Barn,

I'm needing some assistance. On Friday I drove my 1934 Roadster for at least an hour or two around town without any issues. Idling at stops, vacuum pressure, shifting and overall operation was just fine. Smooth sailing. Now this morning on Christmas Eve, I drove it around town for maybe 30 minutes and came to a stop at a stop sign (had a bump in the road). Downshifted to first gear and was ready to take off, shifted into second and then in the midst of going into third it died. Could not get it to start after that.

I have gone through the entire fuel delivery system draining the lines. Then cranking to make sure fuel is shown in the filter and consequently the carb. No problem with that. The battery is now dead aftre many attempts starting it. I had my brother try and crank it over earlier, and held a continuity tester on the coil (that goes on the spark plug). NO SPARK after he was hitting the starter.

Any ideas?? I doubt its the condenser or distributor related since I did not touch it. However I did take the side caps (going to the ignition coil) to see the points and then put it back in and closed the wire latch. Need some guidance please.

Quite possible that extended run time heat soaked the coil and/or condenser so no spark until things cool down. Get a couple long spark plug wires and a short length of clear vinyl tubing that the wires slide in snugly. Disconnect one plug wire from a plug and hook to one long wire and run it out of the hood where you can see it. Slide the end into the clear tubing. Slide the other wire into the same tube until the wire ends are about 1/8" apart. Connect that 2nd wire to the plug. You will be able to see the spark as the engine is running. Go for a drive and watch the spark as the engine dies. If the spark quits, it's ignition failure. If the spark is still there, it's fuel.

[rotorwrench]

Condensers have been know to fail with no notice on plenty of occasions. Coils can too but many times they will function while cool then open circuit when warmed up. Check and see if you have voltage at the coil with the ignition switch on. There is a ballast resistor under the dash on most old Fords of that era and it can crap out. Ignition switches can get crusty on the interior contacts over time too.

There are lots of possibilities that have no real cause other than age or questionable quality of parts. If you ever forget and leave the ignition switch on and the ignition points happen to be closed, the coil can fry so keep a close watch for stuff like that. Rebuilt original Ford coils are generally better quality that any of the new reproduction stuff so keep that in mind too. Several guys on the forum rebuild OEM coils with modern materials.

[G.M.]

You need to FULLY Charge your battery. Everyone knows you need large battery cables with all tight clean connections. Measure the voltage to the wire on the drivers side of the coil. With the ignition switch on you should have 6 volts when the points are open and about 3.5 to 4 volts when the points are closed. you can tell when they are open or closed by the voltage. Don't leave the switch on over 5 minutes or you can melt the coil. Save yourself a lot of trouble and have Skip rebuild your coil and send a couple condensers so he can hot test them. G.M.

[bluardun]

All good advise. Condenser may be your first and easiest to replace. You may have luck at a NAPA store.

[50fordcoupeman]

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I would also suspect the coil...............

[dbtenner]

Thank you for the responses. I’ll check more on this in the morning and let you know. It’s a bit odd to me that a bad condenser would shut the engine down while driving. I’ve taken the helmet like coil caps off of each side and put it back in and closed the wire. Hope I put it back on right.

I’ll do a few tests in the morning and let you know.


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[deuce lover]

Had that happen to me many yrs ago.Coming back from dinner in my '34 Vic the engine quit running cold turkey .Had a spare NOS condenser and the tools with me in the glove box.I switched it out - started right up and made it home .

[dbtenner]

To give ya’ll an update, I took the condenser out and took a multimeter (positive on hot lead circle part and negative on condenser body and vice versa) to it in the ohm position to measure resistance. Both showed a resistance reading.

However I was not able to get any reading at the threaded end of the condenser. Is it suppose to show a reading? (Here is a picture)


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[Ggmac]

A continuity tester on hi tension coil leade? A condenser or coil is suspect . I always carry a spare . Do you have 6/12 volts to the coil ? If not check your ign switch or wiring .
Don't suspect electrical components are still cold once you've used them , even once . Just because it was good doesn't mean it'll stay good .
You need primary voltage to create secondary . I'm still leaning towards coil or condenser assuming you have voltage going to the coil .

[Ggmac]

Why would it be odd ? At some point in the parts life they fail , very likely odds are that they fail 50 percent of the time while in use .

[deuce lover]

To me the first pic the connector that the red lead is on is the ground as it bolts to the dist part that goes to the block so you are just checking the condenser housing to it .The hot is the threaded end.IMO replace the condenser.To check the coil take your leads and put one end to the connection on the coil that the condenser attaches to and the other end to the stud that the wire from the dash connects to.If no reading the circuit is open-should be closed(buzzing sound).

[tubman]

You can use a cheap multimeter to check if a capacitor (condenser) is functioning. Set your multimeter to a high ohms scale and hold the leads on the capacitor for a while. The voltage on the leads should put a small charge into the unit. Then reverse the leads on the condenser, and you should see the unit discharge. Any changes in readings show the capacitor is functioning, but does not indicate if it is functioning properly (at it's rated value). If the meter does not change, the capacitor is not functioning. This may not work all of the time with a digital meter. An analog meter is better for this kind of testing. Of course, if you have an expensive meter that has the facility for testing capacitors (most don't), you're home free.

[weemark]

I have had a few condensors fail on me whilst driving, the car just dies and wouldn't start again. I now always carry a spare one with me in the glove box just in case.

[bluardun]

Another easy thing to check is the resistor under the dash on the inside of the firewall. Over the years being warm/hot and cold the terminals get loose. Or the resistor burns out and become an "open" in the ignition system.
You've got the condenser out; Buy a new one and install it. In fact, by 2. Again, I have found the best quality condenser's from NAPA. In other words avoid Speedway, Mac's, etc.

[lotsagas4u]

I suppose you already checked ignition switch contacts, and plate. They get dirty and need cleaning, and ears bent upwards.

[DavidG]

Per your photos, in the first one you are measuring the resistance of the cadmium-plated brass casing and of course you'd get a resistance reading as neither cadmium nor brass are perfect conductors. Your second photo's reading is the one that counts; replace the condenser.

[dbtenner]

Ok so here is the update: purchased a NAPA FA5 this morning and added a grounding wire to go to the frame. The width of the condenser is smaller than the one I took out. The car still won’t start up.

When you mention “check the coil” what are you referring to. I know the points and individual “coils” that go to each spark plug. I’m still leaning towards no spark. When my brother hits the starter my continuity test at each plug shows nothing.


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[tubman]

Originally Posted by dbtenner

Ok so here is the update: purchased a NAPA FA5 this morning and added a grounding wire to go to the frame. The width of the condenser is smaller than the one I took out. The car still won’t start up.

When you mention “check the coil” what are you referring to. I know the points and individual “coils” that go to each spark plug. I’m still leaning towards no spark. When my brother hits the starter my continuity test at each plug shows nothing.


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I think we have a communications problem here. The coil others are referring to is the dome shaped black object on top of the distributor, which is bolted on the front of the engine with 3 bolts. This is usually the case unless a different engine has been installed or the distributor has been converted to use a can coil. I think a picture or two would be in order.

[Charlie ny]

Derrick,
As mentioned before, and this situation occurs often , check the ign
switch on the column drop for failure. Quick shade tree way is to use a jumper wire across the 2 terminals . The switch is a rudimentary design that works till it doesn't.
Adapting the modern condenser goes something like this. The wire or strap soldered to the shell of the modern condenser goes to ground....the pigtail gets connected to the plate that is cast into the end of the condenser hole in the coil.
This plate is what the brass terminal on a genuine condenser 'sees'.
You're getting there,
8" of snow here and 20 degrees
Charlie ny

bakelite coil housing