Two tooth steering bad rebuild

[nhusa]

I have to do some work on the two tooth steering box in my 31 Town Sedan.

I noticed that there was a metallic knock when I first turned the steering wheel.
I traced the noise to the steering box and found that the selector shaft moved up and down.
After looking at Mac's diagrams, it looks as if the bushings in the steering selector housing could be worn.
I am kinda hopeing that I don't have to remove the steering column and do a complete rebuild.

if this continues I will have rebuilt or refurbished almost everything on this Model A Town Sedan. It is becomming a pain in the b@tt and a wallet emptier.

The title should be box not bad. I hate spell checker!

[Marshall V. Daut]

Plan on replacing the steering sector, too. You will find a wear pattern on the shaft where it has run inside the two bushings, even though brass is softer. You'll also find wear marks (gouges) in both teeth on the sector gear where it contacts the worm gear. Unless you replace the steering sector, too, you'll never get all the up and down slop out, nor will you be able to adjust out the play in the steering wheel. Rarely will just replacing the bushings and reaming or honing them solve steering box problems.
Marshall

[Jacksonlll]

First just loosen things up and tighten down the vertical bolt to drive the upper bushing down. Thats easy, but dont bgreak the upper race. It should slide down and eliminate that slop.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi nhusa,

Glad you are letting us know how you feel.

It may become depressing at times for some, and maybe not at all for others .... that sometimes almost everything we investigate on a newly acquired Model A is really not "good enough" and we recognize that it has to be rebuilt.

With patience and care, if all done correctly ........ and everything is later properly lubricated, maintained, and cared for ...... these Model A's are really extremely difficult for a caring person to wear out.

Your reward is not far off ..... please hang in there.

Hope this helps.

[Marshall V. Daut]

I see a terminology issue here causing confusion. Does the poster mean "sector shaft" and not "selector shaft"? I read the problem as originating in the sector bushings, which allow the sector to move up and down if the bushings and/or sector shaft are worn. My answer was based on this being what the poster meant. If, on the other hand, the poster meant that the steering shaft moves up and down, then "JacksonIII" has the right advice. Which is it, "nhusa": the sector shaft or the steering shaft? A different adjustment addresses the problem with each.
Marshall

[Keith True]

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Unless things have changed if I bought a new sector I would not buy the bushings that are sold by the vendors.I've never had any of those fit tight.I just buy bushings by size,and ream them to fit.I get them from Applied Technologies,who is about 8 miles from you.That needle bearing conversion won't fit a new sector tightly either.The sectors are not hardened as you might think,after a few miles the sector will have the needle bearings worn into it in a hundred little lines.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

You "might" consider the F-150 steering box conversion, by Randy Gross. NEVER heard a bad thing about them.
Bill W.

[nhusa]

H. L. Thanks for the encouragement.
The A has been in our family since the mid 50s. My dad used it to get to work and I drove it the high school at times.
The A and a 19 Model T were put in a barn in 64 when dad got sick.
I got the T about 5 years ago and the A just after my mom died about three years ago.
The T did OK while in storage but the A had big trouble.
At first I was thinking of selling the A until my wife told me that it was her car.

The radiator hoses on the A had been disconnected and the motor was stuck solid.
Mice had moved into the radiator and it looked like there had been a head gasket problem because there was water in the bottom end and behind the valve cover.

We found a short block that had been rebuilt and added the parts we had, put new oil and water pumps in it, a new clutch with throw out bearing, rebuilt the transmission, distributor, and carburator.
I rewired the car and made sure the brakes were OK.

I spent a whole weekend flushing and cleaning out the radiator - including a strong vinegar treatment.

Once the motor was back in and everything connected, it took me four weekends to get it started because the needle valve in the carb stuck and there was a short in the distributor.

Now that it is running, i will have to take the radiator out again because it overheats and now I find the steering box issue.

Meanwhile the Model T is getting little attention or use (except for a people's choice trophy at a local car show late last year) and the house projects are piling up.
I am 72 years old, still working because I have to, and am getting tired.

[nhusa]

Bill where can I learn about the F150 conversion?

[denniskliesen]

Google is your friend...

Does your Model A steer hard or sloppy and has lots of play? Is your original steering box worn out, or better yet, are you worn out driving your Model A? If so, then it is time to get modern with one of our F100 modified steering boxes. Our boxes will make your vehicle feel like it has power steering! We have been building these for over 25 years with lots of satisfied customers. No alterations required! Bolts right in! Written up in the "Model A Times" publication for their quality, workmanship, and proper fit. Prices vary for 1928-29 and 1930-31. For more info, please include the year of your vehicle. "Model A Times" article available upon request. Email us at [email protected] or call us at (714) 292-8660 for more info. Thanks
Posted by: Randy Gross, from Montebello, CA USA

Posted on Friday, August 05, 2016 at 16:34:45 (EDT)

[Tom Wesenberg]

Are you a Model A club member?
Sometimes a half dozen members will come over and gang fix the car.

[nhusa]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Are you a Model A club member?
Sometimes a half dozen members will come over and gang fix the car.

I may be old fashioned but I seldom join clubs unless I can be a contributing member. I do belong to the NH Model T club but only get to a couple meetings a year because of my work schedule and I don't have a trailer to get to their tours.

I considered joining an A club but decided to wait until I got the car running.

[denniskliesen]

You'd be doing yourself a big favor to join a Model A club especially before you get it running. There are a lot of long time Model A owners that would be more than happy to help you get your A running and keep it running.

[Pilotdave]

+1 on the encouragement to join a club. Helping members rehab/problem solve their cars is one of the goals of every club I know of. If giving back is your ultimate goal, you'll have plenty of chances to do that, too - after you get your car whipped into shape!

Dave

[Keith True]

The nearest club for both he and I is about 40 miles.One is in Mass.and another in Maine.There is on in the Bow N.H.area,but that is also 35-40 miles.I know of a couple dozen A owners around me,only a couple have computers and none of them are too clubby.We all like to go and meet with the club people out touring,but none of us like to get in a gang and cruise around together.I met a man today that has a real nice 30 Fordor that lives 5 miles from me.I drive by his place a couple of times a week and have never seen the car before a show today.

[nhusa]

Keith -
Since we live a few miles from each other should we start our own Model A club?
It could be a sub-division or splinter group from one of the others.
We would have to be careful about the splinters because they can hurt - Especially if they are not removed quickly! I know!!!

We could meet at my home on Saturday mornings for coffee and work on my A!
(just Kidding)

[nhusa]

I am finally back to thinking about rebuilding the steering box.

Am I correct in assuming that the two tooth box can be removed from the vehicle without taking the whole steering column out?

[Terry, NJ]

Probably you are correct about that! But you'll do more work, working around it than if you just take it out. Be glad it's not a coupe! I did both of my coupes and it wasn't so bad. Too much work to try to do to do it half's. Bite the bullet and rebuild it and adjust it on the bench. Steering boxes are like paint jobs, something no one wants to touch. So get good at both and the world will beat a path to your door!
Terry

Originally Posted by nhusa

I am finally back to thinking about rebuilding the steering box.

Am I correct in assuming that the two tooth box can be removed from the vehicle without taking the whole steering column out?

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by nhusa

I am finally back to thinking about rebuilding the steering box.

Am I correct in assuming that the two tooth box can be removed from the vehicle without taking the whole steering column out?

Nhusa,
No.. it has to come out and is not that big a deal. Take off the starter, remove floorboards, clutch pedal
steering box bolts at frame and then the steering column clamp at the gas tank. You can then rotate it a little and bring it out the passenger compartment.

I read you comments about rebuilding everything but then you have to realize it's an 85+ year old car that is wore out. That's just part of having an old car. Honestly the good part about Model "A"'s is that there are plenty of quality parts available and they are relatively inexpensive compared to having to have something made and finding parts for other odd make cars. Count your blessings and get work at it as you are able.

You can either send it to snyders or brattons, or there are some of us out here who do rebuilding by trade if you are not schooled at it. There is a process in doing it and adjustments that are critical and must be done right.
It's about $600 + for a steering column rebuild. It must be done right.

Larry Shepard

[Brentwood Bob]

If you are lucky the adjustment for the sector on the engine side of the steering box will take out the play. But since you are systematically fixing things then pull the box and go thru it. the service bulletins have an excellent explanation of how to make each of the 4 different adjustments to the 2 tooth box.
Bob