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Old 01-05-2020, 06:33 PM   #21
rotorwrench
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Default Re: Revising gear box

A lot of folks go to the rubber ball set up on the radius rod. That wouldn't necessarily need any oil on it. When building the ball back up with weldment and profiling it back to OEM specs, it can take oil and grease better but was never really set up to be lubricated and isn't included in the chart. They certainly got oily from the usual seeps most model As tend to have.

I'm not sure what dash or cowl brackets could be used to hang the transmission from either. A person could hang it from a cherry picker type engine hoist though. Most folks install the engine and the transmission as a unit but it can be removed by pulling the rear axle & drive assembly back out of the way.

Since your using seal bearings, you could seal the bore in question. Oil that gets in there will have no where to go with the sealed bearings in there.
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Old 01-05-2020, 06:56 PM   #22
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I have another question:

I am considering whether to close the through hole from the gearbox to the clutch release bearing rail.

I installed sealing lip bearings to avoid oil dripping. In my opinion, this opening is counterproductive. Because of the maintenance hatch, I can lubricate the rail well.

Thinking wrong or right? Thanks at all!
Believe the through hole is to allow any oil that passes through the bearing to flow back into the trans case. The seal on the bearings will limit the penetration of oil past the bearing but will probably not stop it entirely. If the hole is blocked any oil accumulation past the bearing will drip out the bottom of the clutch housing. As the oil drips out the front of the bearing retainer the clutch disc will likely be contaminated. Probably best to leave the hole open.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:52 PM   #23
Werner
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Note: If a sealing lip bearing (Brattons) is installed with the slinger ring, the disc presses against the bearing when screwing the gear box onto the clutch bell and blocks the shaft!
Difficult to remove as the picture shows. -

Question: Is it correct that the color of the universal housing on the transmission side corresponds like the engine color and the rear side is black?
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Revising gear box

The front side acts as the bearing retainer for the main shaft so it was likely painted as the transmission was. The rest of the drive train would be black from there on back
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Yes the colors are correct as you stated. As to the slinger, I need a better perspective as the slinger goes inside the transmission case. I dont understand why you have to remove anything unless you put it on wrong.
Does the front bearing retainer seat properly? Something is amiss. Shouldn't make a difference having a sealed bearing.

Last edited by Russ/40; 01-07-2020 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:00 PM   #26
Tom Endy
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Attached is a link to an article that may be of help overhauling a Model A transmission.

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https://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...ugust-2018.pdf
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:58 AM   #27
rotorwrench
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Default Re: Revising gear box

I've never used the seals on the inside of the bearings due to the possible interference between the slinger ring (baffle) and the seal. If a person is going to use the seal, about the only recourse is to fabricate a shim the thickness of the baffle but with only enough diameter to act as a shim. This would be a way to get the proper dimensions of the stack up without a conflict between the baffle and the non-original seal.

I work on helicopters that use grease seals that are removable on both sides. Depending on the bearing size and application, they have varying schedules for inspection and reservice of these greased rotating ball bearings but all are required to be inspected and reserviced at 24-month intervals with a shelf life grease interval of 4-years before re-service. I would not use a sealed grease bearing in a transmission for this reason. A seal in the outside is fine but a proper baffle on the inside is there to insure that the gear oil will lubricate the bearing. This is the same reason I use phosphor bronze pilot bushings in the flywheels. Sealed bearings may last a long time but there is no guarantee that the lube inside them won't break down and lose it ability to protect the bearing any more than peoples perceived worry that metal particles with hurt the bearings.

On one particular helicopter I maintain, we have to inspect and lubricate bearings that are exposed to outside elements more often than others due to the tendency for water to get into them through those rubber seals. Owners don't like the grease on there so they would wash the machine with a pressure washer to get the old expelled grease off. With water inside the bearing, they corrode and can fail if not inspected more often. Condense is another problem on some bearings. It makes a person scratch there head on just how water can get in there but it does. With seals in place, it can't get out so it stays in there and mixes with the grease.

Due to all of this experience, I'm a firm believer that Ford knew what they were doing when they designed and built them the way they did. It was the most reliable way to make things last as long as they could for the technology of the time. Now days, planned obsolescence tends to keep thing wearing out at about the same rate they always have with very few exceptions.

All gear boxes make metal. This requires that there be a scheduled draining and refilling of the lubricant in there. Warm the component up to get the crud in suspension then drain it out. Do it as often as Ford recommended or do it once ever 12 or 24 months but do it. Your engines, transmissions, & axles will last a lot longer that way.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-08-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Revising gear box

I went to Tom Endy's link, and right away saw the caution not to use the available late baffle in an early transmission. I'm a believer that when using sealed transmission bearings, the inboard seal should be removed to allow flow and cooling to take place.
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: Revising gear box

I only use the bearings that are sealed on one side for better lubrication .
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Hallo und guten Tag miteinander!


I discovered the mistake! On the new slinger was the outer diameter 0.05" too large. As a result, the ring got stuck on the housing while I screwed it together. When the gearbox was pressed against the chlutch bell housing, the slinger got pressed against soft lip and blocked the bearing balls.

The photo clearly shows the all-round narrow pressure on the outer edge. -

Today I revised the shift tower. There was only 2/3 diameter of the shift lever ball! The shift claws had 1/4" wear clearance in the square shots. It was welded on and it was a lot of work to create the original shape with the tooth milling machine. But it turned out well.


I say "Thank You" at all for the many hints!
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:21 PM   #31
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Ready for another 90 years.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Quote:
I'm a believer that when using sealed transmission bearings, the inboard seal should be removed to allow flow and cooling to take place.
Ditto
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Old 01-09-2020, 01:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: Revising gear box

The adjustable strap, acts alike a sling to support transmission when installing, or put
pipe in drain hole for floor jack to lift transmission.


Hope that explains info. Bob
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:22 PM   #34
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzes45 View Post
The adjustable strap, acts alike a sling to support transmission when installing, or put
pipe in drain hole for floor jack to lift transmission.
Hope that explains info. Bob
Thanks! O. k. this confirms my opinion to mount the engine with the gear as one block in the car.



Quote:
I'm a believer that when using sealed transmission bearings, the inboard seal should be removed to allow flow and cooling to take place.
Just only a technical note: Sealing lip bearing grease is a special synthetic lifetime lubrication. When heated, the grease becomes liquid and transfers the heat well to the shaft and the housing. With intact rolling bearings, there is only an insignificant low internal frictional heat. With or without a sealing lip, I think that there is no difference in the life expectancy in the first 100000 mls ...
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:12 PM   #35
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Hallo und guten Tag!

Do I see it correctly that the clutch release bearing is drawn wrong upside down? I installed it the other way around.

Thanks!
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:30 PM   #36
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Yes, the picture is wrong.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: Revising gear box

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Originally Posted by motordr View Post
Yes, the picture is wrong.
Concur. The smooth machined surface must contact the release fingers.
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Old 01-12-2020, 12:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: Revising gear box

If the gear box never leaks, you don't need a dipstick. In the ideal world (:.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:33 AM   #39
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Default Re: Revising gear box

Dear Tom Endy - a quick word of thanks for your excellent articles. I recently used the one about gearbox rebuilds and followed it to the word. I have an early casing (pre-snap ring) which needed a single brass washer at one end of the lay shaft as the end play was greater than 0.010”. The gearbox is reassembled with a full set of new gears from Snyders plus the use of Brattons gearbox repair kit/gaskets etc. The shift tower is rebuilt (though the spring in the detente doesn’t feel too positive when selecting 3rd/top gear). I did all this work and changed the gearbox casing from a later one with snap rings, as the lands for the snap rings were worn enough that the output shaft would move fore-aft over 0.050”!
To my dismay, having reassembled, installed and driven the car it still jumps out of third /top gear on the overrun, though never under load when the engine is pulling hard. All other gears are perfect. As I replaced the spigot bearing in the back of the flywheel and the first motion shaft is new, there is no play there, I can’t see them being the source of the problem??!? As it jumps out of gear on the overrun, as I slow down with limited load on the engine, it seems to point towards the shift tower? As this is the second time I’m doing this, I’m now at a bit of a loss as to the root cause. Might the rear axle be causing a load through the Universal Joint, causing a forwards load, thereby making the slider for 2nd/top jump out. Seems implausible. Any help really appreciate. All the best, Harry Colledge (Derbyshire, UK)
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:51 AM   #40
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Default Re: Revising gear box

You didn't mention the main shaft as a replaced component. What did you observe as to fit between an old main shaft and new replacement gears?
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