The Ford Barn

nickair · 07-23-2014, 07:51 PM

Radius Ball attention needed. Looking for your thoughts on the best way to clean up what I have. My Radius Ball is worn top side near 1/8th". It drives and steers great for a model A, with no shimmy issues. I found this issue as I was tightening my pitman arm to reduce free play at the wheel. One castle nut cotter advance did the trick there. Although, I noticed the radius ball when the wife was cranking the wheel back and forth, as I checked pittman arm play. The radius rods were moving slightly side to side. Further investigation showed me the springs holding the radius ball cover were not compressed. Looking for clarification of tightening specs. Also, looking for thoughts on ways to deal with what I have as far as wear, (it is not bad.) This 31 tudor is a survivor I just picked up and it has the original type hardware on the radius ball. I read past threads. Looking for your thoughts on how to proceed?

pat in Santa Cruz · 07-23-2014, 09:26 PM

in the first place, the cups wear a lot and do not show it. Replacing them will help. Run the nuts up to the spacers, then back them off one or two cotter slots. The gap should be about 1/8th inch. If there is no gap, then the ball is worn. Common band aid repair is to place a hammered washer in there, or one thats pre made from your favorite parts house. Problem is, if the wear is on top, as you have noticed, the washer drops down. The best home made repair is to weld up the ball and file it round. Of course, doing that comfortably means removing the entire front axle. I imagine with a lift it could be done somewhat more easily. You can weld the washer in place on top and grind it smooth too. The radius ball socket bolts wear into the clutch housing too, dropping down so far that when the nuts are tight against the spacers, the cotter hole is too low.

nickair · 07-23-2014, 09:43 PM

Thanks Pat. That all makes sense. I have never done a radius ball assembly. Not sure what was involved.

dave in australia · 07-24-2014, 09:37 AM

Look for my previous post on another possible way of repairing the radius rod ball.

Ed in Maine · 07-24-2014, 10:19 AM

Is there any down side to using the rubber ball on the radius ball other than it will not comply with the judging standards? I believe Ford went to the rubber ball as standard in 1932. Ed

700rpm · 07-24-2014, 11:10 AM

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Ed, that will be only a temporary fix. The rubber will get squishy and disintegrate in a very short time. This really needs to be steel to steel to keep the steering geometry skookum.

Purdy Swoft · 07-24-2014, 12:43 PM

Actually metal to metal wears quickly. the cars that I've riden in with the flimsy metal to metal with springs setup all had shimmy problems . I'm sure that there were other problems as well. Ford changed this flimsy setup for a reason. If it was really so great they would have continued using it untill the radius rod style frontends were discontinued in 1949. All of the V8 cars ,32 thru 48 use this system till this day with no problem. The rubber balls last for years and i've never really needed or had to replace the rubber ball in any of my model A's unless I was rebuilding the front end. I never had a problem with any of the V8 cars that I use to have either. Replacing the rubber ball is an easy inexpensive procedure that anybody could do if ever needed. The cupped washer fix is really the bandaid that will wear out even quicker because it is metal to metal and moves constantly. I have used the rubber ball setup for 54 years in my first and all other model A's . The claim that the rubber ball setup causes shimmy is totally bull shit.

nickair · 07-24-2014, 03:03 PM

OK, I did some research. My radius ball attachment moves as the steering wheel is moves excessively back and forth. My 31 has no shimmy issue at all, but my radius ball attachment does move around enough to visibly twist the entire axle and it is moving up and down. The ball plate springs are not hardly compressed at all allowing room for the radius ball to move up and down also. With all my radius ball movement, having NO shimmy issues is in-line with Perdy Swoft's post, above.

I have never done the radius ball repair, so I know nothing about it. Interestingly it appears that the cast and rubber was the upgrade replacement parts kit from Ford parts department. Seems that Ford would have engineered the caster issue into their replacement parts? Is that a bad assumption? Why is there opposition to the ford improved radius ball kit with cast and rubber vs. metal on metal?

flybob08 · 08-10-2021, 12:11 PM

Question - my old radius ball cup sits on the top ball cup tightly. When I put the new cups on they are about 1/8", maybe a bit more" separated from each other. Is this a problem or was the prior just worn. When I got to tighten the bolts, the nut now sits on the spacer and is tight in order to get the cotter pin through. Any ideas would be appreciated.

07-23-2014, 07:51 PM	#1
nickair Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Oregon Posts: 132	Radius Ball options Radius Ball attention needed. Looking for your thoughts on the best way to clean up what I have. My Radius Ball is worn top side near 1/8th". It drives and steers great for a model A, with no shimmy issues. I found this issue as I was tightening my pitman arm to reduce free play at the wheel. One castle nut cotter advance did the trick there. Although, I noticed the radius ball when the wife was cranking the wheel back and forth, as I checked pittman arm play. The radius rods were moving slightly side to side. Further investigation showed me the springs holding the radius ball cover were not compressed. Looking for clarification of tightening specs. Also, looking for thoughts on ways to deal with what I have as far as wear, (it is not bad.) This 31 tudor is a survivor I just picked up and it has the original type hardware on the radius ball. I read past threads. Looking for your thoughts on how to proceed? __________________ Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L.D. I have 40 horses in the garage. Only feed them when I want to take them out. 31 Model A Tudor 55B Nick Last edited by nickair; 07-23-2014 at 09:59 PM. Reason: accuracy

07-23-2014, 09:26 PM	#2
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Radius Ball options in the first place, the cups wear a lot and do not show it. Replacing them will help. Run the nuts up to the spacers, then back them off one or two cotter slots. The gap should be about 1/8th inch. If there is no gap, then the ball is worn. Common band aid repair is to place a hammered washer in there, or one thats pre made from your favorite parts house. Problem is, if the wear is on top, as you have noticed, the washer drops down. The best home made repair is to weld up the ball and file it round. Of course, doing that comfortably means removing the entire front axle. I imagine with a lift it could be done somewhat more easily. You can weld the washer in place on top and grind it smooth too. The radius ball socket bolts wear into the clutch housing too, dropping down so far that when the nuts are tight against the spacers, the cotter hole is too low.

07-23-2014, 09:43 PM	#3
nickair Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Oregon Posts: 132	Re: Radius Ball options Thanks Pat. That all makes sense. I have never done a radius ball assembly. Not sure what was involved. __________________ Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L.D. I have 40 horses in the garage. Only feed them when I want to take them out. 31 Model A Tudor 55B Nick

07-24-2014, 09:37 AM	#4
dave in australia Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,175	Re: Radius Ball options Look for my previous post on another possible way of repairing the radius rod ball.

07-24-2014, 10:19 AM	#5
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Re: Radius Ball options Is there any down side to using the rubber ball on the radius ball other than it will not comply with the judging standards? I believe Ford went to the rubber ball as standard in 1932. Ed

07-24-2014, 11:10 AM	#6
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,903	Re: Radius Ball options Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Ed, that will be only a temporary fix. The rubber will get squishy and disintegrate in a very short time. This really needs to be steel to steel to keep the steering geometry skookum. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

07-24-2014, 12:43 PM	#7
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Radius Ball options Actually metal to metal wears quickly. the cars that I've riden in with the flimsy metal to metal with springs setup all had shimmy problems . I'm sure that there were other problems as well. Ford changed this flimsy setup for a reason. If it was really so great they would have continued using it untill the radius rod style frontends were discontinued in 1949. All of the V8 cars ,32 thru 48 use this system till this day with no problem. The rubber balls last for years and i've never really needed or had to replace the rubber ball in any of my model A's unless I was rebuilding the front end. I never had a problem with any of the V8 cars that I use to have either. Replacing the rubber ball is an easy inexpensive procedure that anybody could do if ever needed. The cupped washer fix is really the bandaid that will wear out even quicker because it is metal to metal and moves constantly. I have used the rubber ball setup for 54 years in my first and all other model A's . The claim that the rubber ball setup causes shimmy is totally bull shit.

07-24-2014, 03:03 PM	#8
nickair Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Oregon Posts: 132	Re: Radius Ball options OK, I did some research. My radius ball attachment moves as the steering wheel is moves excessively back and forth. My 31 has no shimmy issue at all, but my radius ball attachment does move around enough to visibly twist the entire axle and it is moving up and down. The ball plate springs are not hardly compressed at all allowing room for the radius ball to move up and down also. With all my radius ball movement, having NO shimmy issues is in-line with Perdy Swoft's post, above. I have never done the radius ball repair, so I know nothing about it. Interestingly it appears that the cast and rubber was the upgrade replacement parts kit from Ford parts department. Seems that Ford would have engineered the caster issue into their replacement parts? Is that a bad assumption? Why is there opposition to the ford improved radius ball kit with cast and rubber vs. metal on metal? __________________ Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L.D. I have 40 horses in the garage. Only feed them when I want to take them out. 31 Model A Tudor 55B Nick

08-10-2021, 12:11 PM	#9
flybob08 Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 76	Re: Radius Ball options Question - my old radius ball cup sits on the top ball cup tightly. When I put the new cups on they are about 1/8", maybe a bit more" separated from each other. Is this a problem or was the prior just worn. When I got to tighten the bolts, the nut now sits on the spacer and is tight in order to get the cotter pin through. Any ideas would be appreciated.