The Ford Barn

cretin · 08-26-2021, 01:06 AM

Hey guys,
I posted this over on the HAMB, but thought it would be wise to ask here as well.

I'm messing with a Y block for the first time. Trying to get it fired up, but I have no fuel getting to the carb.
The vehicle is a '64 F100 with what I believe to be the factory 292 Y block.
I put new fuel in the tank, and removed the sender so I could make sure everything looked ok inside the tank. After cranking and getting it to fire up for a moment with starting fluid or pouring gas down the carb, I removed the line to the carb, and it was bone dry.
I removed the feed line to the pump, and it was dry too. So, I siphoned gas out of that line so I knew I had fuel at the inlet side of the pump.
Still bone dry on the other side.
So, I thought the pump was bad, even though it was a newer pump put on by the previous owner. It did look like a cheap pump.
I replaced the pump with a Carter M3528 pump. No change.

The fuel line to the pump is not plugged, and there is no pre-filter. There is a new hose and filter after the pump.

I cranked it over with my finger over the end of the hose coming out of the pump. It felt like it was trying to do a little bit of something. It kind of seemed like it was too easy to bolt the pump on. Usually when something goes that smoothly for me, it's an indication that something is wrong. Haha.
There is an old electric fuel pump still bolted to the frame, this could be an indication of something wrong, or simply an electric pump was installed.

Tonight, I pulled the pump and looked in there with a mirror and a flexible camera. The eccentric is there. I got a friend to crank it over for me and it looks like it’s doing what it’s supposed to.
What else could it be?
Is there different size eccentrics for different year Y blocks and mine could have gotten swapped with the wrong one or something?

I know I could put in an electric pump and be done, but I now presumably have 2 new good mechanical pumps, so it would be nice if those worked.
All the rubber lines are new. I'm not the one who installed them, but they have been replaced.
The short section under the cab, then another short piece to the inlet to the pump, then its rubber all the way from the outlet of the pump to the carb with a filter inline.

I did siphon the gas down to the inlet on the pump to make sure fuel was getting there. I have not yet tried gravity feeding from a different vessel, but I can give that a shot.

The Carter pump did seem to be doing its thing when I just actuated it by hand. That's why I was thinking about the possibility of there being a smaller diameter eccentric from a different year Y block that could have gotten swapped in or something, and maybe the lever simply isn't being moved far enough.
I'll give all the lines an inspection, and try using fuel from a different vessel.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

darrell · 08-26-2021, 05:09 AM

the eccentrics are all the same

KULTULZ · 08-26-2021, 05:14 AM

If an electric pump was installed with a separate filter, most likely if was used to feed the mechanical pump and not used as a primer pump having a fuel flow-thru rating. That filter may also be clogged. Possibly by-pass the pump and filter with a section of fuel hose to see if the mechanical pump will prime. Loosen the fuel cap (vent).

It is difficult for a mechanical pump to pull (vacuum draw) through an electric pump and it's filter. That pump has the be activated or isolated/removed from the circuit.

The carb fuel bowl has to be filled. Once it starts off that fuel the mechanical pump should become primed.

You need a combination vacuum/pressure gauge.

Dobie Gillis · 08-26-2021, 07:01 AM

Maybe the pump is installed incorrectly? The pump arm has to go UNDER the eccentric. The fact that you had no difficulty bolting it up suggests the arm is not positioned correctly, usually installing the pump is somewhat of a fight unless the eccentric just happens to be in the UP position. Here's a recent thread on the subject:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295087

dmsfrr · 08-26-2021, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

Maybe the pump is installed incorrectly? The pump arm has to go UNDER the eccentric. The fact that you had no difficulty bolting it up suggests the arm is not positioned correctly, usually installing the pump is somewhat of a fight unless the eccentric just happens to be in the UP position. Here's a recent thread on the subject:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295087

There was a similar thread where it turned out the counterweight or spacer behind the eccentric ring was missing, positioning the eccentric ring a bit too far to the rear. The fuel pump arm would slip off and it had scrape marks on the rear of it.

Ole Don · 08-26-2021, 03:07 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

TRy replacing the rubber line near the tank. Buy the good stuff, it should say on the hose, For fuel injection. The other stuff goes bad in less than a year.

michealphil02 · 08-26-2021, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrell

the eccentrics are all the same

Yea

paul2748 · 08-26-2021, 08:35 PM

Check the flex hose between the hard line and the pump. They can go bad inside and you can't see it. Also check all your lines - a small hole in one can cause the pump to suck air instead of gas.

Did you blow air from the tank forward?

You might try getting gas from a can instead of the tank - fill a can with gas and run a hose from the can to the fuel pump

CrownVic55 · 08-27-2021, 12:09 AM

Check and make sure you don't have a fuel pump for a 6 cyl. car. I was sent the wrong one. It installed easily but the shape of the arm was too low for the eccentric to move it much.

cretin · 08-27-2021, 12:38 AM

Well, the fuel issue is solved.
I feel like a bit of a bonehead, but sometimes I am!
It would appear that the previous owner had the fuel pump hooked up backwards, and as a result, so did I.
I was in bed doing some research on Y blocks last night when I noticed how the fuel pump was hooked up. I thought, hey, that's the opposite of how mines hooked up.
So, tonight I switched it, and there you go.
Turns out a fuel pump works pretty well once you have it hooked up properly. Haha!
Gotta make sure you eliminate the simple stuff first, but I didn't even think of that possibility.

So, now I have fuel. I got the truck fired up, but not to stay running yet. I'll have to mess with it this weekend. I don't have much time during the week because I get home late. And I don't have a garage back yet since losing it in a fire, working in the dark and dirt doesn't make the job easy.

KULTULZ · 08-27-2021, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cretin

Well, the fuel issue is solved.

I feel like a bit of a bonehead, but sometimes I am!
It would appear that the previous owner had the fuel pump hooked up backwards, and as a result, so did I.

You simply replaced the pump as it had been previously installed. You are not a bonehead.

50fordcoupeman · 08-27-2021, 10:56 AM

My hat's off to anyone willing to tackle work on their own vehicle. As Kultulz said, you are not the bonehead!!

KULTULZ · 08-27-2021, 11:05 AM

The man figured it out on his own. That's half of it.

cretin · 08-28-2021, 03:26 PM

Thanks guys.

I got to mess with it a little bit today, and its running quite well now.

I really need to get some wheels and tires for this thing now!

08-26-2021, 01:06 AM	#1
cretin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: S.F.V. Cali. Posts: 133	Y block no fuel Hey guys, I posted this over on the HAMB, but thought it would be wise to ask here as well. I'm messing with a Y block for the first time. Trying to get it fired up, but I have no fuel getting to the carb. The vehicle is a '64 F100 with what I believe to be the factory 292 Y block. I put new fuel in the tank, and removed the sender so I could make sure everything looked ok inside the tank. After cranking and getting it to fire up for a moment with starting fluid or pouring gas down the carb, I removed the line to the carb, and it was bone dry. I removed the feed line to the pump, and it was dry too. So, I siphoned gas out of that line so I knew I had fuel at the inlet side of the pump. Still bone dry on the other side. So, I thought the pump was bad, even though it was a newer pump put on by the previous owner. It did look like a cheap pump. I replaced the pump with a Carter M3528 pump. No change. The fuel line to the pump is not plugged, and there is no pre-filter. There is a new hose and filter after the pump. I cranked it over with my finger over the end of the hose coming out of the pump. It felt like it was trying to do a little bit of something. It kind of seemed like it was too easy to bolt the pump on. Usually when something goes that smoothly for me, it's an indication that something is wrong. Haha. There is an old electric fuel pump still bolted to the frame, this could be an indication of something wrong, or simply an electric pump was installed. Tonight, I pulled the pump and looked in there with a mirror and a flexible camera. The eccentric is there. I got a friend to crank it over for me and it looks like it’s doing what it’s supposed to. What else could it be? Is there different size eccentrics for different year Y blocks and mine could have gotten swapped with the wrong one or something? I know I could put in an electric pump and be done, but I now presumably have 2 new good mechanical pumps, so it would be nice if those worked. All the rubber lines are new. I'm not the one who installed them, but they have been replaced. The short section under the cab, then another short piece to the inlet to the pump, then its rubber all the way from the outlet of the pump to the carb with a filter inline. I did siphon the gas down to the inlet on the pump to make sure fuel was getting there. I have not yet tried gravity feeding from a different vessel, but I can give that a shot. The Carter pump did seem to be doing its thing when I just actuated it by hand. That's why I was thinking about the possibility of there being a smaller diameter eccentric from a different year Y block that could have gotten swapped in or something, and maybe the lever simply isn't being moved far enough. I'll give all the lines an inspection, and try using fuel from a different vessel. Any thoughts are appreciated.

08-26-2021, 05:09 AM	#2
darrell Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: p.e.i. Posts: 1,060	Re: Y block no fuel the eccentrics are all the same

08-26-2021, 05:14 AM	#3
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,466	Re: Y block no fuel If an electric pump was installed with a separate filter, most likely if was used to feed the mechanical pump and not used as a primer pump having a fuel flow-thru rating. That filter may also be clogged. Possibly by-pass the pump and filter with a section of fuel hose to see if the mechanical pump will prime. Loosen the fuel cap (vent). It is difficult for a mechanical pump to pull (vacuum draw) through an electric pump and it's filter. That pump has the be activated or isolated/removed from the circuit. The carb fuel bowl has to be filled. Once it starts off that fuel the mechanical pump should become primed. You need a combination vacuum/pressure gauge. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

08-26-2021, 07:01 AM	#4
Dobie Gillis Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Middle TN Posts: 1,060	Re: Y block no fuel Maybe the pump is installed incorrectly? The pump arm has to go UNDER the eccentric. The fact that you had no difficulty bolting it up suggests the arm is not positioned correctly, usually installing the pump is somewhat of a fight unless the eccentric just happens to be in the UP position. Here's a recent thread on the subject: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295087 __________________ Often wrong but never in doubt.

08-26-2021, 03:07 PM	#6
Ole Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Michael, Minnesota Posts: 1,713	Re: Y block no fuel Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) TRy replacing the rubber line near the tank. Buy the good stuff, it should say on the hose, For fuel injection. The other stuff goes bad in less than a year.

08-26-2021, 08:35 PM	#8
paul2748 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midland Park, NJ Posts: 3,980	Re: Y block no fuel Check the flex hose between the hard line and the pump. They can go bad inside and you can't see it. Also check all your lines - a small hole in one can cause the pump to suck air instead of gas. Did you blow air from the tank forward? You might try getting gas from a can instead of the tank - fill a can with gas and run a hose from the can to the fuel pump __________________ 48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria

08-27-2021, 12:09 AM	#9
CrownVic55 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Collinsville, OK Posts: 171	Re: Y block no fuel Check and make sure you don't have a fuel pump for a 6 cyl. car. I was sent the wrong one. It installed easily but the shape of the arm was too low for the eccentric to move it much.

08-27-2021, 12:38 AM	#10
cretin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: S.F.V. Cali. Posts: 133	Re: Y block no fuel Well, the fuel issue is solved. I feel like a bit of a bonehead, but sometimes I am! It would appear that the previous owner had the fuel pump hooked up backwards, and as a result, so did I. I was in bed doing some research on Y blocks last night when I noticed how the fuel pump was hooked up. I thought, hey, that's the opposite of how mines hooked up. So, tonight I switched it, and there you go. Turns out a fuel pump works pretty well once you have it hooked up properly. Haha! Gotta make sure you eliminate the simple stuff first, but I didn't even think of that possibility. So, now I have fuel. I got the truck fired up, but not to stay running yet. I'll have to mess with it this weekend. I don't have much time during the week because I get home late. And I don't have a garage back yet since losing it in a fire, working in the dark and dirt doesn't make the job easy.

08-27-2021, 10:56 AM	#12
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 865	Re: Y block no fuel My hat's off to anyone willing to tackle work on their own vehicle. As Kultulz said, you are not the bonehead!!

08-27-2021, 11:05 AM	#13
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,466	Re: Y block no fuel The man figured it out on his own. That's half of it. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

08-28-2021, 03:26 PM	#14
cretin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: S.F.V. Cali. Posts: 133	Re: Y block no fuel Thanks guys. I got to mess with it a little bit today, and its running quite well now. I really need to get some wheels and tires for this thing now!