Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-25-2012, 11:20 PM   #81
ford38v8
Senior Member
 
ford38v8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,616
Default Re: What is this noise?

Get busy with it, so you can take the grandkids for a ride after the Xmas dinner!
__________________
Alan
ford38v8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 11:44 PM   #82
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
Get busy with it, so you can take the grandkids for a ride after the Xmas dinner!
Flying out tomorrow morning to Virginia for a week to visit daughter and her family there. That's why I had to get this all decided tonight so I could order any parts I'll need tonight to have them when I get back in a week to put it all back together before the big family feed on the 10th in G'Raj Mahal.

Merry Christmas!

__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-27-2012, 01:35 AM   #83
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
Default Re: What is this noise?

Find whatever socket in your toolbox that will fit over the pinion shaft splines (doesn't have to be a perfect fit) and use the torque wrench to take a reading before you touch that inner nut (or outer one). Read the dial as you are turning, not the amount to start turning. Write that number down. Next add about 12-15 in. lbs. to that number and adjust the inner nut to get this total reading. This will allow for any drag from turning the whole ring gear/axles, etc.
Note that when you tighten the outer or lock nut that the preload will increase a little so take another reading before you bend the lock washer ears over. you can loosen/tighten the locknut without a socket by using a dull chisel or punch and hammer by tapping on the nut at an angle (angle determined by practice!).
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:06 AM   #84
41ford1
Senior Member
 
41ford1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ManchVegas, New Hampshah
Posts: 1,589
Default Re: What is this noise?

You may want to flush the differential to remove as much metal bits as you can. Do that before making any adjustments. I'd used something like ATF or some light oil. Spin the pinion and each axel a few minutes by hand. Then drain and refill with gear oil. It might be worth putting a magnetic drain plug in. I fully get not wanting to do a full tear down.
41ford1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:15 AM   #85
G.M.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida and Penna.
Posts: 4,471
Default Re: What is this noise?

Use a parts washing gun and diesel fuel to wash it out.G.M.
__________________
www.fordcollector.com
G.M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:55 AM   #86
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 41ford1 View Post
I fully get not wanting to do a full tear down.
Finally - a voice sympathetic to my plight as a novice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41ford1 View Post
You may want to flush the differential to remove as much metal bits as you can. Do that before making any adjustments. I'd used something like ATF or some light oil. Spin the pinion and each axel a few minutes by hand. Then drain and refill with gear oil. It might be worth putting a magnetic drain plug in.
I like your thinking on the cleaning and magnetic drain plug. I'll do that for sure.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

Last edited by Old Henry; 11-27-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #87
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 10,856
Default Re: What is this noise?

Henry, get her done the way you want to do it. Not much need for further discussion on this one.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #88
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

For any curious to see what sheared off my coupler pins look at this 30 second video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN3yZ...ature=youtu.be
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 12:32 PM   #89
Tony, NY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Capital of Corruption , NY
Posts: 810
Default Re: What is this noise?

The slop in the splines (see video) seems to me to be excessive. The pin will be flexing and eventually break again. Maybe this was already talked about.
Tony, NY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 05:04 PM   #90
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony, NY View Post
The slop in the splines (see video) seems to me to be excessive. The pin will be flexing and eventually break again. Maybe this was already talked about.
You are exactly right about that. The coupler is new 30,000 miles ago but the pinion shaft is original. So, to remove the slop I'd have to replace that gear and the ring gear for $200-400 or, just leave the pin out. No one really came up with any good reason for the pin to be in there. There is no way the coupler could slide far enough forward or backward to slide off so, instead of the expensive task that I really don't know how to do, I left the pin out and put it back together. I expect it to last the rest of my life just like it is.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #91
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: What is this noise?

Or at least last long enough for you to be able to find a nice replacement axle, in good running order, (nice and tight), and plan a switcheroo when it is convenient.

Mart.
Mart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 08:07 PM   #92
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
Or at least last long enough for you to be able to find a nice replacement axle, in good running order, (nice and tight), and plan a switcheroo when it is convenient.

Mart.
Or that.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 08:28 PM   #93
PeteVS
Senior Member
 
PeteVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FP, NJ
Posts: 2,769
Default Re: What is this noise?

I was just looking at post #42 with the pictures. I hadn't realized that both of the pins had come undone. Perhaps the noise started when parts of the second pin arrived on the scene and caused the ruckus. Anyway, the splines aren't gonna get any better. I doubt that replacing the pins would help.
__________________
Don't never get rid of nuthin!
PeteVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 09:46 PM   #94
woodypecker
Senior Member
 
woodypecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Clarkston, Michigan
Posts: 239
Default Re: What is this noise?

Report back after another 25,000 miles.
woodypecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 02:37 AM   #95
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

I was totally wrong!

I finally got everything back together tonight and took a test drive. All my work was in vain and my diagnosis in error. THE ANNOYING NOISE IS STILL THERE!!!

So, all I learned from all of that effort is what the noise was NOT. It was not the chunks of coupler pin grinding on the pinion lock washer.

I guess it's just one of those noises I'm going to have to try to get used to until it either goes away or something actually breaks worse and stops me in my tracks. At least it's not there under power, just when decelerating or with the clutch in or in neutral.

Sometimes we lives and we learns. Sometimes we just lives.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 09:05 AM   #96
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 10,856
Default Re: What is this noise?

Henry, it was surprising to me, with all the driving and long trips you take, that you did not completely go through that rear and do what needed to be done while you had it out and apart. I'm even more surprised that you put it back together, found that it's making the same noise, but plan to drive it that way until it fails, possibly in a dangerous situation with other family members onboard. This just does not make good sense to me. I usually do not like to be judgemental but just couldn't help myself on the outcome of this thread.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 09:34 AM   #97
1937pickup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 586
Default Re: What is this noise?

I feel your pain Henry-my 37 pick up has a clicking noise above 20 mph that I can not figure out. At first I thought it was a wheel bearing-nope. Checked the turtle-nope. Eelectric fuel pump-nope. Speedometer or cable-nope. Based on where the noise is located it may be the Holly fuel pressure regulator. Having said that I have AAA paid up and am driving it until what ever it is fails and tells me what it is. Hey its an old Ford and may never fail.
1937pickup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #98
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

When I had the axle off I spun it every which way as fast as I could and could not reproduce the noise. The differential was smooth and tight. When I got it all back together and still in the air I ran it the same as I did to test it before and could not get the noise again. The drive line was actually quieter with the clutch in than in gear - just opposite of what it had been before. I was so excited. My efforts had been worth it. Then back down on the ground for the test run. Started going uphill from my house - everything grand. Got to the top of the hill and turned around to come back down and there it was again.

I'm conviced that it's not in the differential because it's the speed of the drive line. The only thing left that I can think of is the bearing in the middle of the torque tube. That's the only other thing that would be wearing out and making noise at the same speed as the drive shaft.

In response to JM 35 Sedan's very tackful condemnation, I am one that prefers finding out what the cause of a problem is before just starting to replace and rebuild things that just might be the problem. As I had no reason to believe the problem was in the differential when I had it off of the car, I had no reason to rebuild or replace that.

I'm afraid only time is going to accurately diagnose the cause of this noise so I can really know what to fix.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 11:01 AM   #99
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: What is this noise?

Off the top of my head - havn't really thought this through.

Old setup before teardown - pins no longer active, shaft free to move fore and aft, shaft moves forward, contacts bolt in back of transmission, noise generated.

Torn down, put back together without pins, shaft in roughly the right position. Ininial tests seem ok. Short drive with proper loads being transmitted. shaft slowly moves forward, contact remade with trans bolt, noise reappears.

I'm not saying that's definitely the problem, but it could be a possibility.

Mart.
Mart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #100
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: What is this noise?

Even as doctors should do: Diagnose before you prescribe.

I got real committed to diagnosing before repairing on our first really long road trip 25 years ago in our Dodge 10 passenger van with 8 kids, my wife, her mother and sister (total 12 in the van) - destination: the northeast from Utah. I did everything to that van imaginable before leaving to make sure we had no incidents on the trip.

As we traveled across the country and got toward Massachusetts a clicking developed somewhere under the van at the same speed as the wheels. From inside of the van it sounded like it was in the rear. I finally decided it was a rear wheel bearing going out and didn't want it to fail and be stranded somewhere. So, as we pulled into Boston for what was planned to be a day of seeing the historical sites there I decided to get it fixed. At the gas station where we filled up I got a referral to a garage not far from there across the street from a cemetery. Pulled in and told them my rear wheel bearings were going out and to replace them. So, there I sat with the van for several hours as they replaced those wheel bearings while the family spent their day in Boston playing at the cemetery across the street!

Finally the repair was done and we were back on the road again. Didn't get out of site of the garage before hearing the clicking sound again!

Went back to the garage. They said to drive the van slowly down the road while they walked beside the van to see where the clicking was coming from. It was in the front right wheel! It was in the disk brake! A quick squirt of something on it silenced the noise! By the time we got into Boston all we had time to do was drive through! Lost a great opportunity to spend the day there to see the sites simply because I did not accurately diagnose before repairing! I committed never agian.

Ever since then I have resisted the natural temptation to just start replacing parts when I'm not really sure what's wrong as I'm afraid too many do and I go through intricate diagnostic procedures to know precisely what the problem is so that I can just fix that problem instead of a bunch of other stuff that ain't even broke.

Likewise, I have had my newer cars into garages that are poor at diagnosing but great at just throwing some time and parts at a problem hoping it fixes it. Needless to say, I don't go to those kind more than once. I finally found a garage that will not try to fix anything that they do not know exactly what is wrong. And, they are extremely skilled in diagnosing so that I know when I pick up my car after they've fixed it it is really fixed and I don't have to worry about going back to "try something else" when what they tried didn't work.

That's the longer explanation why I did not just "go through" the entire rear end while I had it out of the car. There was no evidence that anything was wrong with it and plenty of evidence that the noise was caused by the pin fragments. I was wrong about that but would even more likely have been wrong to spend hundreds of dollars rebuilding the tranny without any evidence it was broke.

Someday what is now just noisy may really break. Then I'll fix it. If it don't break I won't fix it.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

Last edited by Old Henry; 12-08-2012 at 03:11 PM.
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 PM.