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Old 12-12-2017, 08:40 PM   #81
GordonC
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Guys I just rolled the crank over so the keyway would be at 12 o'clock so we could see 3 teeth to the right or left of it at one time. No dot to be found anywhere. Not on the teeth, not behind the oil slinger, not anywhere. I am beginning to believe the 1 dot I did find on the gear is one he put there...
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:44 PM   #82
George/Maine
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

If the position isn't the same when lined up.
My guess you may not the correct count on gears. cam is 44 and crank is 22
Also when both valves closed #1 is the dot at 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock?
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:44 PM   #83
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

The 3rd tooth over to the right is the one and it is a little hard to see in the photo. The key needs to be over to the left pointing toward the #1 cylinder and the 3rd tooth straight up. Clean it near the crank and check, but looks like it may not be marked. Looks like the slinger is still in place, can you see behind it?
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:46 PM   #84
Bob C
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

I just was looking at the factory service manual and noticed the keyway on the crank for the cam gear is about 180 from the keyway for the pulley. Didn't know that.
looking at your picture you need to turn the crank about 180 to see the cam gear keyway.

Bob

Last edited by Bob C; 12-12-2017 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:49 PM   #85
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

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Originally Posted by GordonC View Post
Binx those are chevy valves in my engine and all the other valve parts came from 8ba engines I had. Never had any earlier ones. It was my understanding you could run the chevy valves if you ran a reground cam and adjustable lifters? No?

Looks like Ill be pulling the heads...

When I say "earlier" I mean '49 and '50 engines had the long springs with single piece retainers. When the timing issue is solved, the valve issue comes down to installed height. With a stock cam and long springs like you have installed, you'll need 2.125" which will be stock spring pressure. If you find it considerably less, you may run into a binding problem.

Lonnie
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:52 PM   #86
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

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Quote:
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I just was looking at the factory service manual and noticed the keyway on the crank for the cam gear is about 180 from the keyway for the pulley. Didn't know that.

Bob
Yes, the crank keyway is 180 to the gear keyway.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:00 PM   #87
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

So treat it like there are no marks, --better with head off, but find top dead center #1, make mark on crank gear straight up (paint, marker, etc), then with all plugs out watch valves in #1 cylinder (much easier with head off), if in chassis put in 3rd gear and rock car watching valves, when one closes and the other is opening rock it back and forth till is seems the valves are both open slightly and are even ---now make mark on cam gear straight down -------if marks match cam timing probably ok
make sure to put in neutral before using starter
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:05 PM   #88
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Ok, I went and pulled a gear. You can see where the mark would be. I also took a photo of the rear of the gear. The rear has a camphor that is much larger than the front side.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:17 PM   #89
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Guys a question. It is safe to say at this point the cam to crank timing is screwed so before I do anything more should I remove the timing gear? I can then rotate the crank into what should be the TDC position and after that I can rotate the cam to get it into the correct position. I can't see anyway of doing that with the gear still on.

Kurt I don't know I can trust what the valves are doing at this point. I can feel compression when rolling it over and get close by eyeball but when I do the crank keyway is 180 off from where its supposed to be. It is at about 5 o'clock as opposed to at 10 or so...
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:32 PM   #90
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

JSeery from what I can see the gear is on backwards as I can see the larger chamfer behind the oil slinger. So I rotated the crank until the keyway came up to about the 10 o'clock position. Interestingly enough I had suction on my finger when bringing it up to this position. Would this be correct if the cam timing was 180 out? I then marked the 3rd tooth to the right from the keyway. If I read everything everyone has been saying this is where the timing dot is supposed to be, or close to it.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:32 PM   #91
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

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Guys I just rolled the crank over so the keyway would be at 12 o'clock so we could see 3 teeth to the right or left of it at one time. No dot to be found anywhere. Not on the teeth, not behind the oil slinger, not anywhere. I am beginning to believe the 1 dot I did find on the gear is one he put there...
I'm looking at the pic in this post and it does not look like the key is in. Also I thought the keyways were lined up but I could be wrong. been a while since I had mine apart.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:38 PM   #92
GordonC
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Frank you may be seeing the keyway slot in the oil slinger. It is there so you can slide the slinger into position with the key in place in the crankshaft.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:44 PM   #93
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonC View Post
Guys a question. It is safe to say at this point the cam to crank timing is screwed so before I do anything more should I remove the timing gear? I can then rotate the crank into what should be the TDC position and after that I can rotate the cam to get it into the correct position. I can't see anyway of doing that with the gear still on.

Kurt I don't know I can trust what the valves are doing at this point. I can feel compression when rolling it over and get close by eyeball but when I do the crank keyway is 180 off from where its supposed to be. It is at about 5 o'clock as opposed to at 10 or so...
Yup, that's the way to do it. Get the crank gear in the proper position. Install the cam gear so it aligns with the mark on the crank gear. Rotate the cam until the bolt holes align, and then rebolt it and you should be golden. Whoopee.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:46 PM   #94
GordonC
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

WHOOOOOAAAAA Nellie! I think I just did this thinking the keyway on the crank that the pulley sets on is the one you guys are talking about when in fact you are talking about the keyway for the crank gear itself! DOH! My bad! I'll see if I can see it behind the slinger.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:47 PM   #95
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

flatjack 9 try to contain your joy LOL!
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:53 PM   #96
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

This should have been solved long ago "LOL"

R
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:07 PM   #97
GordonC
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Sorry Ronnie I never claimed to be a flathead genius and when you have to guess your way around some other persons screwy work it just takes a bit longer...

Ok, redid my stuff. Used the cut out in the slinger to locate the keyway in the crank gear! Turned the keyway to the 10 o'clock position and then counted 3 teeth over and marked the gear. This should be the timing mark now. This time I had compression on #1 as I came up to TDC and the "pulley" keyway is 180 degrees to the right of the gear keyway. Approximately at 5 o'clock. Sorry for the additional confusion as I was reading one thing and doing another. My bad. If you look at the picture I have left the slingers cut out in front of the crank gears keyway and you can see it through the cut out. The dot on the cam gear is now about 5 teeth away from the new dot I made.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:15 PM   #98
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

OK as you have TDC on #1 when the crank and cam dots are aligned.

Grab the crank and move it back and forth about 1 tooth on either side of the dots..

Look at #6 valves , yes both of them at once.

They should be rocking together, one closin as the other is opening or both very slighlty open together .

Stop moving the crank when you have these valves evenly rocking.

Your dots shold be exactly aligned.

Not 1 tooth out.....exactly.

Last edited by pooch; 12-12-2017 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:21 PM   #99
GordonC
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

Pooch I think it is on backwards from looking at the crank gear pictures that JSeery posted. I can see the larger chamfer on the face of it looking behind the oil slinger as indicated in his pictures. I am just going to mark this one in the correct location and let it go at that. I still have to figure out how to get the cam to the correct place now that I have the crank location correct. Once I have that done then I may pull the heads to look into whats up with the valve springs. Some of the guys have mentioned they don't look correct.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:58 PM   #100
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Default Re: Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

glad to see the puzzle has been solved, just one comment, that blue gook around the crankshaft, is it grease, or silicone? you do not want gobs of silicone running loose thru your new motor. best wishes, skip
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