Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2020, 01:58 PM   #1
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Can I remove 4 head bolts from a rebuilt but not yet run engine (properly torqued head) and install a bypass truck oil filter later before starting it for the first time?
The 8RT truck filter bolts to the head using 4 head bolts between cylinders 7 & 8. The bolts are numbered 12, 13, 15 & 16 as seen in the second photo.
I will be using Permatex Copper Spray Form-a-Gasket on the head gaskets and not-hardening Permatex #2 on the head bolts' threads.
I want to put the heads on the block (without manifolds or accessories) before I move it from the shop, roll it down the gravel driveway to the carport in a Mickey Mouse cart (DIY cart) and put it in the rolling chassis (cab, fenders, etc. still to go on the frame).

Should I loosen all head bolts, remove the 4 needed bolts and then torque them all down properly? Or can I just torque the head bolts down to say 20 ft/lb for now and properly torque everything when I place the oil filter.
'52 C1BA/8RT Canadian built motor.
Thanks, Terry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 8RT Truck Oil Filter.jpg (29.4 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Torque Sequence.jpg (42.3 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by Overkill-F1; 04-26-2020 at 11:24 PM.
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 02:29 PM   #2
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 7,901
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

In my opinion the answer is "YES", since engine has never been run or reached operating temp. It would be no different than if you needed to change a headbolt. Do them one at a time if possible. QUESTION: With the oil canister in place is there enough space for a torque wrench. ANOTHER QUESTION: Are you sure that's the correct canister for that engine? The ones I've seen use the 3 headbolts at the top rear of the head, numbers 4,21,13.

You can use the headbolt shown to install an oil canister without having to remove the head bolts. I did it after modifying 2 of the original 3 headbolt hold downs on the base of the canister as shown.

That way I was able to torque down the heads and not have to remove those head bolts to install the canister.

You could also use the stock headbolts you now have and use a canister like this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FLATHEAD-FO...gAAOSw3DteOyu8
I could have used this style canister without having to modify it. Would have easy,Just use 3 of the the AMK products head bolts.

Look here for more canisters that you might find useful for your style head.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...er&_sacat=6000
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4695b.jpg (62.3 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4838b.jpg (39.7 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4764b.jpg (55.0 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4782b.jpg (33.2 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4835b.jpg (48.7 KB, 32 views)

Last edited by 19Fordy; 04-23-2020 at 03:21 PM.
19Fordy is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-23-2020, 04:51 PM   #3
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
In my opinion the answer is "YES", since engine has never been run or reached operating temp. It would be no different than if you needed to change a headbolt. Do them one at a time if possible. QUESTION: With the oil canister in place is there enough space for a torque wrench. ANOTHER QUESTION: Are you sure that's the correct canister for that engine? The ones I've seen use the 3 headbolts at the top rear of the head, numbers 4,21,13.

You can use the headbolt shown to install an oil canister without having to remove the head bolts. I did it after modifying 2 of the original 3 headbolt hold downs on the base of the canister as shown.

That way I was able to torque down the heads and not have to remove those head bolts to install the canister.

I could have used this style canister without having to modify it. Would have easy,Just use 3 of the the AMK products head bolts.
Answer 1- There is not enough room to use a torque wrench under the oil filter, I would have to use a box end wrench and gauge the torque by comparing to other head bolts' tightness.(close maybe?!)
Answer 2- I'm pretty sure that this oil filter canister is correct for this 8RT truck engine. The heads are 8RT, and are not like the image I used to show the head bolt torque sequence.
I like the way you modified your canister, but the head bolts you show would be the best answer but those ones would only work in two locations (12 & 13). The locations 15 & 16 need the shorter head bolts. I wonder if AMK has shorter ones?
Thanks for your help, Terry
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 05:20 PM   #4
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 7,901
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Well, you could buy 3 AMK long bolts, rethread them and then shorten the bolts with a cut off wheel. It's worth a try.

Plus, I am pretty sure those head bolt holes are "through" holes which makes life easier when it comes to bolt length.
19Fordy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 08:41 PM   #5
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

19Fordy,
I checked AMK Products and 4 bolts ($32) and $25 shipping seems ok, but your idea of re-threading them got me thinking of making 4 studs from long 7/16-14 bolts.
I could cut the heads off, make them a little long (to fit 2 nuts, washer and the canister flange) and thread the top of them. The canister holes are 7/16".
This would solve both of my problems, I wouldn't have to disturb the torqued head bolts and I could place the filter canister on later. The canister would have to come off for re-torques, though.
Should I thread the top of them 7/16 fine thread or coarse?
Thank you, Terry

Last edited by Overkill-F1; 04-23-2020 at 08:53 PM.
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 09:55 PM   #6
GB SISSON
Senior Member
 
GB SISSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 2,392
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

On the engines Ford built with studs, they were coarse into the block and fine for the nuts at top. Always seemed right to me (and Henry) , so why not?
__________________
'47 1/2 ton pickup next project, '47 one ton panel 99% stock nearing completion, '47 2 ton with 8ba and 9' script stakebed, '46 1/2 ton woodie project,'59 F350 9' flareside pickup with cummins 6at. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
GB SISSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2020, 09:30 AM   #7
MGG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 234
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

In post #2, 19Fordy's first picture of the blue colored head looks to be like my 8BA head. It uses 3 separated blind threaded holes to hold the canister. These are not related to any of the bolts which hold the head to the block. With this head, I was able install the canister at any time without disturbing the head bolts. My canister base I think was like the one in his fourth picture before the modifications. My head has "8BA" cast into it.
MGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2020, 10:59 AM   #8
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGG View Post
In post #2, 19Fordy's first picture of the blue colored head looks to be like my 8BA head. It uses 3 separated blind threaded holes to hold the canister. These are not related to any of the bolts which hold the head to the block. With this head, I was able install the canister at any time without disturbing the head bolts. My canister base I think was like the one in his fourth picture before the modifications. My head has "8BA" cast into it.
My driver's side 8RT head has the same 3 blind threaded holes but don't use them when using the truck 8RT oil filter canister.
Terry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P3110157 (2).jpg (55.6 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Overkill-F1; 04-24-2020 at 11:05 AM.
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2020, 11:30 AM   #9
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,313
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

I don't know what was originally on your truck, but if I were you, I would seriously consider getting a later 8BA/8RT oil filter housing and installing it. Not only would you not have to worry about headbolts/studs, but the three blind holes on the left head wouldn't be there for God and everybody to see sitting there unused.

They're not that hard to find or expensive when you do. Since the filters held on by the head bolts were only used in 1949 (at least in the US), it would probably be more correct.

Hell, that filter assembly is probably rarer and worth more than the later 8BA/8RT unit.

Last edited by tubman; 04-24-2020 at 12:57 PM. Reason: I gotta check these closer before I submit them.
tubman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2020, 12:42 PM   #10
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
I don't know what was originally on your truck, but if I were you, I would seriously consider getting a later 8BA/8RRT oil filter housing and installing it. Not only would you have to worry about headbolts/studs, but the three blind holes on the left head wouldn't be there for God and everybody to see sittinb there unused.

They're not that hard to find or expensive when you do. Since the filters held on bt the head bolts were only used in 1949 (at least in the US), it would probably be more correct.

Hell, that filter assembly is probably rarer and worth more than the later 8BA/8RT unit.
I've seen a couple of my type of 8RT filter canisters on Canadian built C1BA/8RT truck engines (mine is '52), all using the head bolts for attachment. I wouldn't mind changing to a 8BA oil canister though.
Terry
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2020, 02:38 PM   #11
supereal
Senior Member
 
supereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,440
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Be sure you have the restricter either on the inlet or outlet of the filter, Without it, you will have low system oil pressure. If not, solder the fitting and drill a small hole through it.
We usually use a 1/16" drill bit.
supereal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 09:31 AM   #12
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 7,901
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Overkill-1: The easiest, simplest,cheapest and best looking solution to your problem is to follow Tubman's advice and use the oil canister that fits the 3 separate mounting holes on the upper rear of your driver side head. Especially since you already have the head.

Other solutions are more expensive and you will be very annoyed later on having to remove 3 head bolts to remove the canister. Take your time and keep it simple. You may even be able to buy hardened steel threaded studs but it's not the best solution.

The only reason I used those special studs was because the MCF heads didn't have the 3 separate oil canister mounting holes.

Your idea of making special studs from long bolts may work. You could also try welding a very short 7/16-20 bolt up-side-down to the top of your stock head bolt (bolt head to bolt head) . Weld, then let cool. Weld and let cool. Weld and let cool, etc so you don't overheat the heat bolt. Chamfer the heads of the mating bolts first.

However, Tubman's idea is best.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 04-25-2020 at 09:38 AM.
19Fordy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 02:22 PM   #13
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Overkill-1: The easiest, simplest,cheapest and best looking solution to your problem is to follow Tubman's advice and use the oil canister that fits the 3 separate mounting holes on the upper rear of your driver side head. Especially since you already have the head.


Your idea of making special studs from long bolts may work.

However, Tubman's idea is best.
Thank you Tubman and 19Fordy for your help.

Yesterday, I took the dog for a walk to the local parts store. $5 and a few minutes work I made 4 studs from grade 8 bolts. I made them a little long, both ends will get trimmed. I may use these with the original truck oil filter if I go that direction.

If I do use these 4 studs with fine thread nuts, should I torque them differently than the 20 head bolts with coarse threads?

I tend to overthink/overkill things too much. I drilled and tapped the rear oil passage when the block was bare, so I could add a 95% remote oil filter at a later date.
Thanks again, Terry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Head Bolts & Studs.jpg (61.6 KB, 6 views)
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 03:13 PM   #14
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 7,901
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

As you know, the head bolt threads in the block are 7/16-14 and should be torqued to those specs. Unless I am confused, you will be installing the 7/16-14 threads into the block using 2 7/16-20 nuts - with one as a jam nut. Then you will remove those same 7/16-20 nuts , place your canister into [position on the studs and then use the same
7/16-20 nuts with washers to secure the canister.

What you have done is replaced 3 of your headbolts with studs having 7/16-20 threads on one end and 7/16-14 on the other end. You could have made 7/16-14 threads on both ends of your "studs", also.

Be sure to make sure that your heads slide easily over the new "studs" you have made because if you ever want to remove that heads you want to be able to do it without removing the studs. Use Anti seize compound" on those studs where they slide thru the head.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 04-25-2020 at 03:21 PM.
19Fordy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 05:24 PM   #15
Overkill-F1
Member
 
Overkill-F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 88
Default Re: Installing Truck Oil Filter Later

The new threads at the top of the "studs" are the right length so I can tighten the nuts down and lock them at the bottom of the threads with red Loctite, they are now basically bolts. They will be the same length as the original head bolts with a threaded section for the filter canister to be placed on top later.
Just need to trim a bit off the top.
Terry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Studs & Loctite.jpg (63.9 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Filter on Studs.jpg (32.9 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by Overkill-F1; 04-26-2020 at 12:54 AM.
Overkill-F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 AM.