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Old 12-01-2018, 12:03 PM   #1
Dean Lemoine
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Default Engine and frame numbers

I just bought a '29 Tudor to restore. There are 2 sets of numbers stamped on the engine block. The top number is A4101293, the number below it is 1335357, this number is also stamped on the frame (I took the body off) and matches the VIN # on the title. My confusion is that research shows that engine #A401293 was built on Nov, 1930. Any info and guidance is appreciated
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Old 12-01-2018, 12:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Here is my thought, FWIW

A1335357 was the original engine number built in 4-6-1929, and it was replaced with A4101293 and they stamped 1335357 on the block to match the frame and title number.
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Old 12-01-2018, 12:40 PM   #3
Dean Lemoine
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Thanks for the response. What does the A4101293 indicate?
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Old 12-01-2018, 12:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

A4101293 engine assembled 4-6-1930

Motor production daily records at bottom of page below link

http://plucks329s.org/studies/studie...tudies_ep.html
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Old 12-01-2018, 01:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

my Coupe has engine serial number: A4585025. There is a star before and after the serial number. Can you give me details on when this engine was manufactured and assembled? Thanks.
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Old 12-01-2018, 01:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

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my Coupe has engine serial number: A4585025. There is a star before and after the serial number. Can you give me details on when this engine was manufactured and assembled? Thanks.
*A4585025* was assembled 04/22/31

look at the MODEL A/AA DAILY MOTOR PRODUCTION CHARTS at bottom of page using the below link

http://plucks329s.org/studies/studie...tudies_ep.html
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Old 12-01-2018, 02:55 PM   #7
Dean Lemoine
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Now I'm really confused. The engine has 2 sets of numbers with 2 different production dates?
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Lemoine View Post
Now I'm really confused. The engine has 2 sets of numbers with 2 different production dates?
Show us a photo of the concerned area.

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Old 12-01-2018, 09:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

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Originally Posted by Dean Lemoine View Post
Now I'm really confused. The engine has 2 sets of numbers with 2 different production dates?

Look at the attached page from the Restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards page 2-1 Revised 2011 it shows the correct shape of the engine number stamping for engines before March 1931 and for engines March 1931 to end of production. Original number stamping were *A1234567890*, and there were two different shape of the numbers.


If you look at the stamping on your engine I think you will find that number *A4101293* matches the criteria for engines March 1931 to end of production and that the stamping 1335357, does not have the *A before and * after, and the shape of the numbers does not match either of the styles included in RG&JS 1-2 Revised 2011, attached.

The 1335357 was stamped on engine *A4101293* to reflect the original engine number and the matching frame number when it was installed in your 1929 Tudor replacing the original engine *A1335357* that was in your1929 Tudor .
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RG&JS 1-2 Revised 2011.pdf (549.9 KB, 43 views)
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Last edited by 160B; 12-01-2018 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

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Originally Posted by Dean Lemoine View Post
Now I'm really confused. The engine has 2 sets of numbers with 2 different production dates?
Dean, I think you are not understanding the original engine was replaced with another engine. That's why there are two sets of numbers on the replacement engine.
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

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Originally Posted by Dean Lemoine View Post
Now I'm really confused. The engine has 2 sets of numbers with 2 different production dates?

Engine number A1335357 come down the assembly line and was put into your car. The number at that time was stamped on to the frame and it was finished being built and sold to a customer. This customer registered and titled the car with the numbers on the engine and frame. The engine failed and had to be replaced with engine A4101293 (an engine that maybe was rebuilt and then used as a replacement). But wait! The paper work, title, has the old engine number that no longer matched the new engine. how do you prove this car is really the one on the title, lift the body off the frame when needed? So to solve the problem they stamped the old number onto the "new" engine and called it a day as the frame, engine and title all now have the same number.
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:02 AM   #12
Dean Lemoine
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Thanks to all of you for the info, and I thought I had a numbers matching car.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Dean, not many Model A cars and trucks have matching numbers. It was easier back in the day and much faster to just have the engine replaced with a rebuilt/reconditioned engine ready to go.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:35 AM   #14
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

It would be a good idea to get car registered and titled BEFORE starting the restoration work.

You might ask why...

Some years ago a guy bought a 30 year old VW bus and spent 10 years and $30,000 restoring it ...

Then he went to get it registered and titled.

DMV found it to be stolen and took it from him and returned it to the owner which in this case was the insurance company who paid the original owner when it was stolen ... no payment for all the money and work!
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

How often is the number on the frame even readable? I had a 1930 pickup where the frame number was impossible to find let alone read. I now have a 1929 roadster where it is barely readable--and does just happen to match the engine number.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
It would be a good idea to get car registered and titled BEFORE starting the restoration work.

You might ask why...

Some years ago a guy bought a 30 year old VW bus and spent 10 years and $30,000 restoring it ...

Then he went to get it registered and titled.

DMV found it to be stolen and took it from him and returned it to the owner which in this case was the insurance company who paid the original owner when it was stolen ... no payment for all the money and work!

I think ordinarily that's very good advice, but in some states you can't get a title or plates unless the vehicle is running and driveable.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:53 AM   #17
Dean Lemoine
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Is there some way of knowing the date the car was assembled by using the number stamped on the frame? It's very easy to read. 1335357
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: Engine and frame numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Lemoine View Post
Is there some way of knowing the date the car was assembled by using the number stamped on the frame? It's very easy to read. 1335357
Assembly date for engine A1335357 was 4-6-1929. The RG&JS allows up to three months for the engine to be installed in a vehicle on the assembly line. Thus the vehicle was assembled as late as 7-6-1929
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