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Old 12-04-2018, 02:43 PM   #1
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Before I go off re-inventing the proverbial wheel here, does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes Carb Float Valve Seat wrenches to remove stubborn/stuck/overtightened brass seats from carburetor bases? I have already tried a Holley 4 barrel Carb jet tool and it is too small. The guys in the Model-T world have made something for their Holley carbs, but a NH or G seat is constructed differently than the Zenith seat. I am including copy of what they built for a visual reference. If anyone knows of something commercially made, please let me know.

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Old 12-04-2018, 03:23 PM   #2
1930 coupe
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Without knowing what year and type of carb you are referring to, the best I can say is click the link to go to the Snap-On tool collectors website and look through the old catalogues to see if you can find what you are looking for. Then search for the part number on ebay.


http://www.collectingsnapon.com/index.php
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

You might contact Dave Renner from Renners Corner
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

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Originally Posted by 1930 coupe View Post
Without knowing what year and type of carb you are referring to, the best I can say is click the link to go to the Snap-On tool collectors website and look through the old catalogues to see if you can find what you are looking for. Then search for the part number on ebay.


http://www.collectingsnapon.com/index.php

We are presently working on a Zenith carburetor used on a Model-A that has a stripped slot. Thanks for the link. If I do not find something I will fab something myself.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Brent
I initially responded but I did so too quickly and reread your plea for a tool.
so I'm editing my response. I'm not sure if it is the same diameter for what you are looking for but the KRW 6050 carb tool for V8 I believe may fit. I use mine when needed for main jet change and removal. there was several on ebay that just sold very reasonably. I almost bought the last one to have as a spare... but let it go... maybe someone needs one other than to sit on the shelf as I have a good one.

I tried one on a float valve I have and it fit... That's where KR wilson tools come in handy. Yes one can be made but of course that takes time. I like the fact of the large plug remover feature on it as well. check out the link below. What kind of carb are you working on for it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L1435-KR-Wi...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


All the best !
Larry shepard

Last edited by larrys40; 12-05-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Have you tried heating and cooling?
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Brent,....what are the measurements for what you'r doing? A little heat would
help..
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Bob,..the makers and numbers are..these are the way they came, uncut...

Proto,..#6535
Snap-On,..#A 44,...has a date code of 1936
Bonney(T handle),...#RF17

If you need the sizes let me know..
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

If the slot in the brass seat is stripped, then even the best correct tool won't work. Why not try an easy-out or stud extractor that fits in the ID of the brass seat.


Also, I worked in the original Detroit Zenith carburetor engineering lab from 1972 to 1984 when they moved to Abingdon, VA. I was issued a tool kit which included this tool, however it's long gone.


Sal
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Old 12-05-2018, 03:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

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Old 12-05-2018, 04:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

What seat are you talking about? Isn't the float valve all one piece, needle and seat as an assembly? I think it's a 5/8 box wrench that fits the hex shoulder to remove it. Are you talking about the brass seat for GAV on the early Zeniths?
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

What's so special about a Model A carburettor that you need to go to that trouble?
That said, I have had great success removing screws with stripped slots etc by using a product I bought years ago. I hope it is still available - mine is getting low. It is powdered carbide in a light oil (I think). The carbide particles provide grip between the screw driver and the stripped slot which is usually enough to move the recalcitrant screw/jet. It is called Re-Grip and was made by a company alled Re-Coil, an Australian company. I don't expect you guys in the US have exactly that product but there may be a substitute available. If there is, please let me know.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

About RE-Grip.

In early 60's I used Coarse Valve grinding compound for this purpose.
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Last edited by Benson; 12-06-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Sal, I think this is where you and Vince were struggling with the concept of the pilot. The slot had been broken (stripped) on just the one side, so if the pilot on the tool could have indexed into the center of the seat, that would have given the tool something to pivot on instead of the opposite side of the slot (-which was broken.). Interesting about Zenith moving to Abingdon as my shop is about 30 minutes away from there and I never knew they had relocated to there.

Thanks Dudley for the pix and the numbers for those tools. Larry, that is pretty close to what I was looking for.


To the rest that responded, -thank you! I know that some of you responded with some comments questioning what I was thinking/doing, and that is OK but you also need to realize that I am often times in the business of repairing what others have 'fixed'. In this particular case, the wrong seat was used by a previous mechanic, ...so it was not the typical Model-A repair.


I also want to point out (--and challenge others to do the same) that I am in the 'restoration' business and not the 'replacement' business. To me, this is an unfortunate direction in which this hobby has gone over the past decade or so which is likely not good for the hobby itself. People really need to learn how to repair instead of replace.


Since many times we never hear "the rest of the story" here how the project came out, so let me close by telling you how we corrected the problem. The carburetor top was inverted and loosely clamped onto he table of the Mill. Because of the irregular shape of the area at the top of the carburetor, to stabilize that area we sprayed a couple of shots of penetrating oil onto the exterior of the carburetor top (to act as a release agent) and placed a piece of sheetmetal directly underneath on top of the Mill table to form a base. We mixed a handful of Kevlar-stranded body filler and placed it between the sheetmetal and the carburetor area on the opposite side of the seat to form a crib. When it dried, that cribbed the area to hold it while we toe-clamped it and on the manifold flange. I ordered a left-handed end mill which came yesterday and we kept pecking the seat body with the mill until it removed most of the brass of the seat. Finally when it was nearly down to the carburetor top, it loosened by the force of the mill flutes grabbing the seat where we then could finish unscrewing it by hand. Likely the vibrations of the end mill pecking against the surface along with the end of the mill trying to grab the brass is what freed the seat free. Thanks everyone!!


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Old 12-06-2018, 10:04 AM   #15
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

You might try a spring plunger wrench, available from McMaster-Carr (and others). They are available from 6-32 to 1"-8 and range from $5 - $10. They don't provide the dimensions for the wrenches but you could probably, accurately, guess by comparing the size of your seat to the appropriate spring plunger. Then buy the tool for that sized plunger or one larger/smaller and modify to fit. Just throwing this out as an option.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Bridgeport vise is in use just now but this Drill Press Vice should show the concept ...
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Am I understanding correctly that the float valves that the vendors sell today, which are one piece, are not the original style that was used in the zenith carbs? We're the originals a separate seat and needle?
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Brent,

Photos of the Float Valve and upper Carburetor half would be helpful for the rest of us to your visualize your delima.

Darryl in Fairbanks
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:24 PM   #19
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will N View Post
Am I understanding correctly that the float valves that the vendors sell today, which are one piece, are not the original style that was used in the zenith carbs? We're the originals a separate seat and needle?

Most one-piece units are modern Grose-Jet valves.










Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylkmc View Post
Brent,

Photos of the Float Valve and upper Carburetor half would be helpful for the rest of us to your visualize your delima.

Darryl in Fairbanks

Darryl, I don't really have pictures and the issue is solved now but as mentioned above, the seat of the float valve had slots installed during manufacturing to install/remove that particular style of seat. Somewhere along the way, one of the slots was damaged where a screwdriver could not effectively remove it when twisting the screwdriver.


For the sake of illustration, let's suppose the center portion of the seat had a 0.250" round bore where the needle would reside. If I would have had a screwdriver that had a 0.249" round pilot in the center of the tip, this would have indexed into the center of the brass valve allowing the twisting forces to be directly from/over the vertical centerline. This likely would have allowed just one end of the screwdriver tip to twist the seat out of the carburetor top. That first picture I posted shows what that type of tool would have looked like. I chose an alternate method and we got the seat out by using a left-handed end mill that loosened it.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:12 PM   #20
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Default Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Brent,

Do you have an unadulterated fuel valve assembly like the one you were dealing with that you could post a photo of?.

Darryl
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