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Old 10-26-2018, 01:55 PM   #1
braol
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Default My Clutch Job Observations

So...I am finally doing the clutch job on my new (to me) '31 Tudor I bought this last summer. I have pretty bad shuddering when letting out the clutch. I have also always had a decent engine oil leak through my cotter key hole that demands investigation. So far I am having a complete riot because I am both an antique junkie and a car nut. It's like having died and gone to heaven. I mean, come on...an antique you can DRIVE! Even better is using all my vintage Ford tools!


I've opted for the rear-end removal method because it looks the most straight-forward. Well, that, plus the fact that I do not yet own an engine lift (I've always owned VW's and Porsche's that don't need a lift). I definitely made the right choice. I have the whole rear-end out after only about 4 hours of work...and that includes all the prep work in the car like floorboards, brake and clutch pedal clevis pins, and so on. I've done clutches on tons of VW's and Porsche cars where you drop the engine down on a jack and remove from behind...the Model A has the same feel when pulling the rear out.


Headaches include:
-cotter keys holding the brake rod clevis pins (4) are kind of a pain to get out. I've hated cotter keys ever since I was an A-10 and F-16 jet mechanic. I prefer thicker twisted wire through the cotter hole that can just be snipped and removed...but I digress...


-jacking the car and putting it on jack stands. OH MAN, with the frame rails so high to begin with you have to REALLY jack the Model A up and put blocks under your jack stands. It feels like the car is on a lift when under there working.


-grease: Between the original oil leaks and all the grease it is a messy job. I like the smell of grease and such though so it's not too bad. Lacquer thinner is your friend.


-the unknown: The over-priced (in my estimation) cost of shipping parts will cause delays. I don't want to have to place multiple orders so I am holding off of buying my clutch parts until everything is apart and I can inspect the transmission, oil pan, u-joint, main cap, throw-out and pilot bearings, bolts, rear brakes, etc............ This is really my biggest complaint thus far. $9 to ship a main carburetor jet!? Really?


-worries: Anything not readily available being hopelessly cracked. Ill-fitting replacement parts. Pressure plate finger adjustment (never did this before). Oil leaking out of some 'secret' place and ruining my new clutch plate and having the shudder problem return. All the gears being chewed-up in the transmission and having to spend too much $$$. I'd rather spend my money on gasoline cruising around town than on parts.
My car like to pop out of second gear when climbing steep hills. I figure either 2nd gear is worn down or something else is going on. Trans work looks pretty straight forward and I am actually excited about taking the thing apart and playing around inside.


-good news: My cousin has a complete Model A drive train sitting in his barn from when he turned his Tudor into a hot rod. In event of total failure, not only can he help work on the car but he has a treasure trove of free, available parts. (I am still scamming how to put the drive train in my garage without my wife just falling right over...) The other great thing is that my car runs like a champ so if I can get this clutch sorted out I just might be ready to hit the touring circuit this next summer!


I hope to get some pics on here soon...stay tuned...
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Last edited by braol; 10-26-2018 at 02:29 PM. Reason: added content
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Old 10-26-2018, 02:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

Just sent you a pm.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

You might want to resurface the flywheel.It can cause the shuddering
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Old 10-27-2018, 03:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

Clutch adjustments are best done with flywhl out and on the drill press table. Adjust finger heights by locking quill. If you have a pinion bearing race from a rear axle, that is a good support in place of the crank flange. Face a piece of round stock for the chuck and use as a stylus with a feeler gauge. To get the flywhl out use 2 4-5 inch bolts threaded into the clutch outer perimeter. Eventually, keep an eye out for taller jackstands. I got lucky and found 4 Blackhawk 10 ton stands that are 28" highest and 18' low, all for $100. Almost like having a lift. Good luck.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

Progress:

The radius ball cup is now apart. Tomorrow I'll crack the nuts on the bellhousing and get that off. Then I can inspect everything and edit my shopping cart and then spring for all the clutch parts. I still need to get the u-joint off and cleaned so I can see if it is good. So far no play in the joint, but I want to make sure there are no cracks in the assembly. Luckily the prior owner kept the joint very liberally greased up.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

This link shows one way to fix worn bolt holes in the bell housing.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224538


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Old 11-06-2018, 07:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

replace the pilot baring,also i would have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

If you have the flywheel surfaced, make sure they do the lip where the pressure plate sits too. The machined area where the pressure plate sits sets the distance between the face and it.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

Should I use the old pressure plate or spring for a new one????
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

I intend to put a new PPlate on. My shudder is bad.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you are getting into.

A few comments,
1) many of the clutch disc installed in the Model A did not have springs in the center of the disc. This can exaggerate clutch chatter problems.

2) Another problem I have noticed is many of the flywheels have “hard” spots in them. This can cause the clutch disc to “grab”.

3) Unfortunately, the most likely problem is oil in the clutch assembly. With an oil leak like you are describing, this is very likely.

4) Your oil leak may be coming from the rear main area. If this is the case, then you be checking main bearing clearances in the engine. You may find the drain tube on the rear main cap is no longer attached to the cap. (This is quite common)

5) When the flywheel is removed, check the measurement from the face of the flywheel to the lip on the flywheel where the pressure plate sets. If I remember correctly, this measurement should be 1.23 inches. Also, make sure the flywheel mounting bolts are below the resurfaced area. These measurements are important starting points. These flywheels are at least 75 years old. You have no idea what has been done to them in the past.

6) I have found that using a rebuilt original pressure plate works best. There are some import replacement parts out there that are very problematic. Ask around and make sure you know what your buying. Berts Model A Parts is a source for information concerning quality parts. They also charge actual shipping cost. No “handling” charges.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

Update:
I got my pressure plate and flywheel resurfaced and inspected by a very reputable machine shop nearby. (They also build and race Top Fuel dragsters so they know what they are doing.) I 'misplaced' my flywheel bolts in the garage for about a week...but I have them firmly in hand (well, in pocket) now and will be mating my newly rebuilt (by me) trans and bellhousing.

*Transmission rebuild note: I ordered a new main shaft from Bratton's that must not be manufactured to correct specs. I could NOT slide my gears (old and worn) onto the shaft so I will be sending it back. The nose of my old shaft is a bit galled, but overall serviceable, so I will just keep an eye on it and plan to replace in the future. I have all new roller bearings in the trans now and a new throw out bearing so I am pretty happy overall. I substituted a third long bearing in place of the spacer and i hope this leads to even smoother running.

About the only thing i'm waiting on now is I have been looking for my green Model A engine paint in the garage so I can put a coat on the trans and bellhousing. Yes...this is a recent trend...I 'cleaned' the garage so that my wife's car could squeeze in there and now I have been looking for some things I "put right here so that i don't lose them...." (Is there no end?!)

I am also waiting on some time to pull the oil pan and check my bearing clearances. I hope the babbit is intact. I have my Plastigauge all ready to go, now I just have to set aside some time and get in there. I also have those two horseshoe shaped shims to put in on the block/flywheel housing...

Did I mention that my service brake cross shaft bushings are worn???? (To be continued...)
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: My Clutch Job Observations

Excellent narration. Much appreciated. Still miss my A.

Regards,


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