Cracked Block Quastion

[KMeredith87]

I have finally gotten the chance to pull the engine out of my '30 pick up and have now found a crack in the #3 exhaust valve. It is hard to see in the picture but the crack goes from the valve seat through into the cylinder wall. Would this block be worth trying to save or is it something that would make a nice table? I have only done a visual inspection and have not had it magnafluxed yet but the crack can be seen without that being accomplished. If the block is not salvageable where is the best place to pick up an engine without having to have a core?

[700rpm]

This is common. It can be saved by a good machine shop.

[Dodge]

For what it would cost to repair and the for the chance it may not hold. I would
find another block, they are still cheap enough.
You would have to sleeve the block and do a crack repair plus a valve seat. Plus
if the crack is down in the valve port your pretty much done.

[colin1928]

Yes it can be saved and give long service so do not scrap it
repair maybe easier then finding a crack free block
you may find a 2nd hand block cheaper but until you crack test it
it is a crap shoot

[Fred K-OR]

Does your motor number match the frame number? In other words, is it the original engine that was in the rig? If so, you may want to get it fixed. Can you check with your grandfather to see if he knows if the numbers match. It gives you a rig worth more if they do agree.

Like Ray mentioned above, a good machine shop should be able to give you a good idea what you can do.

[Russ/40]

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Like Dodge said; Pin the crack on the deck; install a valve seat; sleeve the cylinder. Expensive, but those kind of repairs do not fail once accomplished. Change blocks, and you have to deal with everything else.

[James Rogers]

I can fix that.

[Bruce,Upstate NY]

I recently tore down five engines. One had no cracks, two could be repaired and two could not. Pretty poor average.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Bruce,Upstate NY

I recently tore down five engines. One had no cracks, two could be repaired and two could not. Pretty poor average.

What did you find that made the block non repairable? Number of cracks? location of cracks?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by KMeredith87

I have finally gotten the chance to pull the engine out of my '30 pick up and have now found a crack in the #3 exhaust valve. It is hard to see in the picture but the crack goes from the valve seat through into the cylinder wall. Would this block be worth trying to save or is it something that would make a nice table? I have only done a visual inspection and have not had it magnafluxed yet but the crack can be seen without that being accomplished. If the block is not salvageable where is the best place to pick up an engine without having to have a core?

That doesn't look bad at all. Doesn't look to be 'into' cylinder wall, BUT you should have a machine shop look at it closer and give you an estimate..which probably would be free (estimate,eh ! If that is the only problem, I'd feel pretty good about that, as it looks like stitch/lock would be effective. I just had a B block, with much worse and more cracks than than pictured fixed successfully. Hey, it won't hurt to get a shop professionals opinion. James seems to think it can be fixed also. Give him a call for details ?

[ronn]

I find good engines around here in the 250.-450. range all of the time. I buy them from guys that are building rods, so the engines have been good. Would never consider the repair, as I still know the engine was cracked and wouldn't mentally be happy with that.
yes I know I'm a basket case! We all have preferences and mine isn't to patch crap, even though it might last forever. to each his own...................

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by ronn

I find good engines around here in the 250.-450. range all of the time. I buy them from guys that are building rods, so the engines have been good. Would never consider the repair, as I still know the engine was cracked and wouldn't mentally be happy with that.
yes I know I'm a basket case! We all have preferences and mine isn't to patch crap, even though it might last forever. to each his own...................

Patching crap and repairing what is broken are too different things.

[ronn]

if you can live with it Mike-no problem
so when you sell your car, do you tell the "new" buyer about all of the cracks in the engine that were repaired "correctly"..........?

just a moral question for thought

[hardtimes]

IMO, when you buy an antique car....it is a crap shoot ! To look at it any other way, moral or otherwise, is fooling yourself. Maybe the guy/gal is not car aware at all, maybe guy is older than dirt, maybe dementia has started (hm..what was subject anyway ?). Well , you should get the idea. There are as many reasons as there are humans. Best you can do is be knowledgeable and ask a million questions before buying or not. At least, that way you can make up your mind...maybe informed ?

[ronn]

funny Hardtimes, because there was another response after mine from CA, that sort of ran into the "moral" dilemma and was burned- his post has been eradicated. He sort of agreed with my point and wish he had known about the "crap" motor he was sold in his A.
Feel like I am in Russia here with the censorship!

I am not passing judgement, just that guys on here will spend 10k on a busted up engine, never acknowledge the fact that the motor was rubbish, but let the new buyer know that there is 10k in the motor. I can check rust on any A, but when it comes to the innards of a motor, we are at the mercy somewhat of the seller.
So many guys on here play the poor widow got ripped off on the sale of her A routine,
when her husband dies, but my question is..............
how honest are you or do you really just think you are honest and everyone else is a shark?

rhetorical question......... not trying to go off topic, but would never buy an A if a guy told me the motor was "stitched and pinned".

and the room grew silent..............

[Ross/Kzoo]

Crickets!

[Mike V. Florida]

Never read where anyone spent 10K on repairing an engine. As for telling the new owner about the repair why not?

Stitching and engine has been around for a great many years.

Do you replace the body parts with new or have the repaired by reforming and welding?

[Bill in Al]

If the babbit is still good and it was a running engine with no knocks when you tore it down,I'd put rings in her and use it. Was it having water or oil in water problems? No!

[Ross/Kzoo]

ronn brought up a very interesting point when selling your car. How much do you share to get the sale completed? Personally I would probably say that I had the engine gone over by a professional engine builder. If they asked specifics then I would elaborate.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

About 1, out of 2 or 3 Model A blocks are cracked. We have fixed them all, except 1 in the past 47 years, and none have leaked.

And that is a lot of engines of all kinds.

That doesn't mean that you turn your local black smith loose with a welder!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Telling someone about a car or anything else is very simple.

You tell the truth, or you lie.

What is your word worth to you!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

About 1, out of 2 or 3 Model A blocks are cracked. We have fixed them all, except 1 in the past 47 years, and none have leaked.

And that is a lot of engines of all kinds.

That doesn't mean that you turn your local black smith loose with a welder!

Of course not, there are sound, time proven methods to repair just about everything that can be repaired. Replacing something just because it is broken, in my opinion, is a waste.

[Fred K-OR]

Wow here it goes again! Many opinions that can go on and on----

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Telling someone about a car or anything else is very simple.

You tell the truth, or you lie.

What is your word worth to you!

That's right. If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by KMeredith87

I have finally gotten the chance to pull the engine out of my '30 pick up and have now found a crack in the #3 exhaust valve. It is hard to see in the picture but the crack goes from the valve seat through into the cylinder wall. Would this block be worth trying to save or is it something that would make a nice table? I have only done a visual inspection and have not had it magnafluxed yet but the crack can be seen without that being accomplished. If the block is not salvageable where is the best place to pick up an engine without having to have a core?

Yes this crack and seat can be repaired. Before you take it to the local shop make sure that they aren't going to use" Crazy glue,silly putty/JB weld or most recently lead filling".

Your picture represents why engines need valve seats. Pounded out.

Number two and three exhaust seat is a common area for Model A and T engines to crack. They can be easily repaired if the machine shop knows how.! There's no need to find a replacement block as we've been fixing these now for years.
What's to say the replacement block is crack free; it may be worse.?
http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html

[Terry,NJ]

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Well, I say, Thank God! that new blocks are being developed! Terry Burtz and the other guy, Todd, I think. When I was fooling around with Ford 8N tractors, The successor to Central Tractor, in Iowa (Can't recall the name now) was producing NEW engines and blocks, In China, for around $2500. I have no idea how they worked or lasted. That was in the late nineties, early two thousands, so these new engines have a little track record. But it can be done!
I, Personally think every model A engine is doomed to internal stress cracks. With 30% to 50% of used blocks lasting 80+ years and then a virtual epidemic of cracking. The castings are timed out! They probably could be saved with some exotic heat treating, but I don't know!
Terry

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by mike v. Florida

of course not, there are sound, time proven methods to repair just about everything that can be repaired. Replacing something just because it is broken, in my opinion, is a waste.

'agree"

[Neal]

Originally Posted by ronn

if you can live with it Mike-no problem
so when you sell your car, do you tell the "new" buyer about all of the cracks in the engine that were repaired "correctly"..........?

just a moral question for thought

I don't see the moral issue regarding this thread. Pinning or stitching the crack has been done for years and accepted as a good technic for the repair. What is there to cover up?

I am more trusting of the seller that tells me that the block has been stitched, that rust repair panels have been used, and that there is body filler underneath the shiny paint. I am skeptical of those that tell me the block is not cracked, the tin is original and no body filler.

Everyone has to determined where they are comfortable with the parts in their car but hopefully the parts that are determined to not be worth fixing can be passed onto someone else that will appreciate them.

Neal

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Wow here it goes again! Many opinions that can go on and on----

THAT'S what I like about Ryans site and come here for !!

[KMeredith87]

Thanks for the opinions guys. As for the engine matching the truck, not 100% but I do know that the engine number is the same number it is titled as. As for whether the engine was running, it was and was running surprisingly well until it wasn't. Took it apart, every babbitt is completely wrecked and the crank snapped in half at the number four journal and I didn't see anything coming prior to this happening. Now with that, I've learned I should have been checking bearing clearance every so often which I was not and did not know I was supposed to, too used to modern cars and jets I guess. However, there was less than 8000 miles on this engine since it was rebuilt so I don't know. I did drop the block off at the machine shop today to have it cleaned and magnafluxed for any other cracks. I'll keep you guys posted on what I find and decide to do. I may just find another running engine and rebuild this one at a later date, we will see.

[Bob C]

That was a counter weighted crank also, what a shame.

Bob

[JJCunningham]

Kohnke Rebabitting - how do you recommend repairing cracks?

[J and M Machine]

JJ Cunningham: Hopefully you have had good luck in securing a block and engine rebuild for your car?
Since you've had so many problems with cracks from the rebuilder.

This is how we do them rather than soldered joint, we leave to the plumbers!
We even had one like yours that the JB weld,solder and an attempt to do stitching. Fortunately for the customer he came to us.

[Bruce,Upstate NY]

How do you repair a crack that extends down 1 1/2 " into the intake valve hole?
The top has been stitched.

[Gunmetal blue2]

I am here to tell you it can be welded and machined. We do this all the time with high performance engines [800 horse motor].

[colin1928]

Originally Posted by Bruce,Upstate NY

How do you repair a crack that extends down 1 1/2 " into the intake valve hole?
The top has been stitched.

Pre heat the block slowly until hot then weld with Nickel Rod Like softweld99Ni or softweld55Ni then cool over 3-4 days in the oven or sand box

[ronn]

"Do you replace the body parts with new or have the repaired by reforming and welding?"

body parts don't propel me down the road Mike....

I see many on here will repair anything and I guess that's a good thing. You all have far more experience on engines then I do. I still won't buy a stitched and pinned engine and wish Ryan had left the response to my original question on here. It gave an opposing view of a guy who was screwed at purchase. His stitched and pinned engine fell apart, but I guess we don't want to hear about them apples in fairness, just what we want to hear is what we hear.....

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by Bruce,Upstate NY

How do you repair a crack that extends down 1 1/2 " into the intake valve hole?
The top has been stitched.

Bruce: If you refer back to my post#25 you'll see the same repair you're enquiring about. We machine the valve seat area out for a new seat repair the crack through stitching and good as new again. No welding. Ever.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by ronn

"Do you replace the body parts with new or have the repaired by reforming and welding?"

body parts don't propel me down the road Mike....

I see many on here will repair anything and I guess that's a good thing. You all have far more experience on engines then I do. I still won't buy a stitched and pinned engine and wish Ryan had left the response to my original question on here. It gave an opposing view of a guy who was screwed at purchase. His stitched and pinned engine fell apart, but I guess we don't want to hear about them apples in fairness, just what we want to hear is what we hear.....

I wish he did also as I only remember a block that was soldered not one that was stitched failing.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by KMeredith87

Thanks for the opinions guys. As for the engine matching the truck, not 100% but I do know that the engine number is the same number it is titled as. As for whether the engine was running, it was and was running surprisingly well until it wasn't. Took it apart, every babbitt is completely wrecked and the crank snapped in half at the number four journal and I didn't see anything coming prior to this happening. Now with that, I've learned I should have been checking bearing clearance every so often which I was not and did not know I was supposed to, too used to modern cars and jets I guess. However, there was less than 8000 miles on this engine since it was rebuilt so I don't know. I did drop the block off at the machine shop today to have it cleaned and magnafluxed for any other cracks. I'll keep you guys posted on what I find and decide to do. I may just find another running engine and rebuild this one at a later date, we will see.

Wow, that is a mess, sorry to learn of you having so severe and many problems with this 'rebuild' !
As I look at that crank, am wondering: What size main/rod journals was the crank ? Doesn't 'look' drilled for pressure...was it ? Looks awful small journals, usually all cranks (that were not drilled) I've seen snap at rear main ?

[hardtimes]

Hey ronn,
I am not disagreeing with your point of view, nor am I agreeing. A large pamphlet could be written , IMO, on the subject of buying a Model A ...or for that matter any vehicle. But, Model A is what we are addressing here. I could get REAL negative on this subject and tell of a 'lady' who professed that her husband had just died and that he had driven the Model A into the garage..where is sits !! But, I won't...and shouldn't have to tell any adult about the nature of lots of humans,eh ! So, I repeat, ask a million questions. If you do not know what to do , look for or questions to ask...take a friend. If you/anyone decides to buy otherwise...look up 'caveat emptor' !!

[dumb person]

i know a way of fixing cracks in a way that would hold water but i would not be too sure about fusing crank webs back into the block using that method.