Newby seeking help

[Gil Sissons]

We have a 31 Model A with a "New" rebuilt engine by a name brand West Coast engine rebuilder. Engine has total of 50 miles since start up last week. Engine runs like a champ. Today it started to spit brownish foam from the radiator cap. took off radiator cap and lots of brownish foam inside. Freshly rebuilt radiator...and water pump. Called the rebuilder...but they are gone already today. Any help where we should start looking? Radiator is warm but definately not hot. Thanks for the input. Gil NoCal

[Bob C]

H&H???

[montanafordman]

Well I would start at the head gasket. When you install a new one they need to be retorqued multiple times before and after they are first run. As long as things aren't warped from being overheated I would first drain your radiator, retorque the head, refill and see if you still have any trouble. If you still get bubbles then I would pull the head, check the head for cracks and make sure its flat, and replace the head gasket.

[James Rogers]

Bet you are running pure water.

Go to the auto parts store and get a couple of bottles of Gunk water pump lubricant. Drain the system and refill with fresh water and put a bottle in. Run it for a day or two and do it again and see what happens.

[Gil Sissons]

You seem on track....We are running straight water...at least for now.

[James Rogers]

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This happens when a block is "cooked" in a caustic solution but not bead blasted clean. Caustic will dissolve all the organic materials on and inside a motor but won't touch rust or carbon deposits. Inside the water jackets the caustic saturates the rust deposits and dries until water is added and heat is introduced into the scene. The rust and caustic combine to color the water brown or sometimes orange. The best way to remedy this is to use water pump lube (1.25$) which is nothing more than water soluble oil. This oil does what any oil does to rust and stops it from forming and encapsulates it keeping it from staining the water. Do it once to stop the rust and eliminate the caustic and the second time to keep it from doing it again. BTW, antifreeze has this product in it. This is why some people don't experience this, they don't run plain water.

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by Gil Sissons

You seem on track....We are running straight water...at least for now.

I would let the engine builder deal with it! If you start removing items I'm sure there will be no warranty. and you will be on your own. Just my thought.

[Gil Sissons]

We tried to connect with the engine builder....and they seem to split early on Fridays....will be back with them first thing Monday AM. Gut reaction says we must have something going on with the head or head gasket.
Gil NoCal

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Gil, in the meantime, DON'T PANIC! Torque the head bolts to 55 ft lbs a couple of times, make sure you don't have water in the oil. (I rather doubt it) Drain the radiator a couple of times & add some soluable oil or other anti-rust stuff & see how it goes. It doesn't take much to stain the water to a brownish color. Main thing, it's NOT OVERHEATING & that's a PLUS! P.M. me if I can be of help, we could even hook up by phone. Bill W.

[Charlie Stephens]

Gil,

My advice would be not to do anything until you talk to the rebuilder and get specific direction. Otherwise the rebuilder will be able to blame something you did for the problem. But in all fairness to him, he might be right.

Charlie Stephens

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Gil,

My advice would be not to do anything until you talk to the rebuilder and get specific direction. Otherwise the rebuilder will be able to blame something you did for the problem. But in all fairness to him, he might be right.

Charlie Stephens

But surely, re-torqueing the head & changing the radiator water wouldn't "VIOLATE" ANY builders instructions.
Bill W.

[Mike V. Florida]

Welcome!!

I would just wait and ask the builder.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Welcome!!

I would just wait and ask the builder.

BUT, what IF the head gasket's seeping & sits ALL weekend & fills the whole danged engine full of WATER??? Retorqueing the head might prevent that possiblity from happening. Retorqueing several times WOULD be part of the rebuilder's instructions, anyhow, to protect the builder & the customer & IF the head were NOT retorqued several times by the customer, the warranty wouldn't be worth POO_POO! I wonder how many engines were wasted, when a customer DIDN'T follow the builder's instructions completely? Sorry If I sound testy, just trying to help!
Bill W.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Gil Sissons

We have a 31 Model A with a "New" rebuilt engine by a name brand West Coast engine rebuilder. Engine has total of 50 miles since start up last week. Engine runs like a champ. Today it started to spit brownish foam from the radiator cap. took off radiator cap and lots of brownish foam inside. Freshly rebuilt radiator...and water pump. Called the rebuilder...but they are gone already today. Any help where we should start looking? Radiator is warm but definately not hot. Thanks for the input. Gil NoCal

Hey Gil,
First question...did you pickup and install the engine. Did you speak with the 'builder' prior to installing the engine. Did rebuilder give you specific instruction about how to care for your rebuilt engine during break-in period. What instruction did you receive, i.e.- retorque (how often?); install water or some other coolant? Did rebuilder state, in writing, a warranty . See this information is VERY important to YOU and to US , if we are to give you help/advice.
James gave you, IMO, very good reasoning and advice. Surely, by changing out coolant, whatever is used, could not void a warranty, versus say....not adding coolant and burning up engine. I would follow the advice that James gave you. One thing that I would NOT DO , is to start removing anything mechanical, because if you even have a warranty, taking apart 'things' will most likely void that.

[RonC]

Put a hose in the top of the radiator with just enough water to maintain water in the radiator while the petcock is open. Run the engine while fresh water is flushing out the radiator until it runs clean. when clean drain and refill with antifreeze mixture or plain water and water pump anti rust lubricant if freezing isn't a problem.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Gary WA

I would let the engine builder deal with it! If you start removing items I'm sure there will be no warranty. and you will be on your own. Just my thought.

Just how would changing the water and adding a lubricant void a warranty??????? The builder will only tell him the same thing, IF he knows anything about engines.

[Gil Sissons]

Thanks again for all that have offered help.
We picked the rebuilt engine up at the SoCal shop...and so yes we did talk to the builders at that time. We were told the head had been torqued...and prior to starting have verified that it is torqued correctly.
Will be Sunday I would guess before we can get back to project.
Anxious for Monday AM...and getting to talk with the shop.
Gil NoCal

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Gil Sissons

Thanks again for all that have offered help.
We picked the rebuilt engine up at the SoCal shop...and so yes we did talk to the builders at that time. We were told the head had been torqued...and prior to starting have verified that it is torqued correctly.
Will be Sunday I would guess before we can get back to project.
Anxious for Monday AM...and getting to talk with the shop.
Gil NoCal

Hey Gil,
Hm, so you 'picked up' engine at shop and was told that it 'had been torqued'. Were you told ANYTHING else ? If not told anything else...we here on the Barn would benefit from knowing where to take business.
Were you told that the engine was , in fact, 'run in' at the builders ? Because if it HAD NOT been run in, there was a lot more info that , IMO, you should have been told. Even if run in, there are follow up actions to take to ensure that a NEW rebuild is kept healthy ! For example, read past threads regarding torqueing / retorqueing and how to properly handle/care for a new rebuild...or even a simple head change.

Finally, did you consider following James advice ? If not, why not I realize that you are fairly new here, but James IS NOT ! He is , in fact, a rebuilder of engines ..A and B. His logic and suggestions for your situation are spot on ,IMO.

[Gil Sissons]

Well...Hopefully...The Rest of the story!
Contacted the engine builder early yesterday. They were very helpful.
As directed...we flushed the radiator two times....then filled with fresh water (yes...we still have enough water here in Northern California to still fill a radiator)...then started the engine. When warm confirmed that that the head was still torqued correctly (it was). Took it for nice ride...and ZERO problems.
Thanks for the input. Gil NoCal

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Gil Sissons

Well...Hopefully...The Rest of the story!
Contacted the engine builder early yesterday. They were very helpful.
As directed...we flushed the radiator two times....then filled with fresh water (yes...we still have enough water here in Northern California to still fill a radiator)...then started the engine. When warm confirmed that that the head was still torqued correctly (it was). Took it for nice ride...and ZERO problems.
Thanks for the input. Gil NoCal

Dog here,
YEA!, Gil, you WON one! SEE, Ol' Bill tole you not to PANIC It's common for a "CLEAN" rebuilt motor to stain the coolant some, especially if you usin' jist PLAIN old water. Buster T.