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Old 02-25-2019, 11:45 AM   #1
Rustbelt A
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Default Rivets or weld?

Is there any reason a sub frame should be riveted, other than for originality?

Iím putting a new one together and would think welding is easier and stronger...with that said, Iíve learned a lot of things are a specific way for a reason.

Anyone else just weld it up an go?
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:05 PM   #2
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Welding body parts together instead of riveting Takes away flexability that is needed . usually the experts will point out that the parts should have been riveted and you will have to listen and wish that you had used rivets instead .
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:16 PM   #3
Tacoma Bob
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Built many a hot rod Model "A" and other vintage street rod and race cars. When it comes to frames................weld away.
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:58 PM   #4
Pete
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

The more rigid the better. Weld is good.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

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Originally Posted by Tacoma Bob View Post
Built many a hot rod Model "A" and other vintage street rod and race cars. When it comes to frames................weld away.
Weld away, OK but is there a particular electrode you'd use? Not that I would weld anyway - the law says NO and I don't want to be on the wrong end of a law suit.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Do you intend to mig or
Tig?
I'd rivet
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Weld away, OK but is there a particular electrode you'd use? Not that I would weld anyway - the law says NO and I don't want to be on the wrong end of a law suit.
6011 for arc welding.
ER 70 for TIG.

I would not mig weld anything
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

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6011 for arc welding.
ER 70 for TIG.

I would not mig weld anything
Why?
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

"Why" is a great question. I don't know about the early frames but as the years rolled on , the carbon content of car/truck frames went up to make them stronger. Unless you are planning to draw the weld back with a torch, mig would be a poor choice. Would stick welding it with a low carbon rod like 1018 be a better choice than 6011? I'd like to know.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Yeah weld away bet u can't do this one with your mild steel crossmembers
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:02 AM   #11
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

I would rivet the frame, just like original.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:34 AM   #12
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Hey guys, please reread the question as this is likely confusing the original poster (-and anyone in the future looking at this post for advice). If I am understanding his question, he is about to assemble the floor sills of a body. He is NOT working on the frame of the vehicle.
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:46 PM   #13
Pete
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

I read "sub frame" but a lot of people don't know the difference.
I would still weld.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Quote:
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I read "sub frame" but a lot of people don't know the difference.
I would still weld.
I riveted the subframe on my 1930 phaeton. It wasn't that hard to do and I will never regret that I riveted it instead of welded it.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:16 PM   #15
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Welding sub frames on hot rods wouldn't make that much difference in the value of the car . Original cars had the body parts riveted , so was the frame parts . Welding either of the parts together would just be a patch up job instead of a restoration . The car would lose points in national judging and would also lose value .
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

6011 is junk rod,made for rough dirty work,initially designed for chain link fence work,perfect for original sub rail repair. New fabrication? MIG,both for speed and weld quality.
Ford pioneered 'electric welding' in automotive production,look no further than your rear axle housing for an example of automated jig welding.As welding technology improved the riveting of steel waned..that being said,authenticity suffers if your inclined that way.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

"Since no provision is kept for expansion and contraction in the frame, therefore there is a possibility of cracks developing in it."

https://me-mechanicalengineering.com...iveted-joints/

The frame for an LPG tank on my modern-ish car was welded in. I've been told a number of times to have it taken out and bolted in because of the twisting of the chassis. The weld has already broken once. It requires regular checking.



PS. "The welding provides very strong joints. which canít be bended easily."

Must be American English?
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:23 AM   #18
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Welding gets a bad name due to the welder not practicing the "5P's"

proper planning prevents piss poor performance.


riveting or bolting will accommodate flexibility till the fastener fails,the same as welding.welded correctly on most applications you will achieve a greater grip surface than bolting or riveting, which only provides tension at the fastener.
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

If you look at construction of buildings built during the 1930's, such as the Empire State Building, EVERYTHING is riveted. I'm sure there is a reason - strength, flexibility, worker capabilities, consistency of joint strength, no issues with changing the temper of the steel, speed of assembly. Similar considerations probably went into production of the A. Ford used a lot of welded assemblies.. but they were machine / jig welded. Where manual assembly was required, the parts are riveted.
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rivets or weld?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRutter View Post
If you look at construction of buildings built during the 1930's, such as the Empire State Building, EVERYTHING is riveted. I'm sure there is a reason - strength, flexibility, worker capabilities, consistency of joint strength, no issues with changing the temper of the steel, speed of assembly. Similar considerations probably went into production of the A. Ford used a lot of welded assemblies.. but they were machine / jig welded. Where manual assembly was required, the parts are riveted.
Structures today are bolted instead if rvited. Better bolt s. They are not welded because if flexibility.
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