Problem adjusting one of the front brakes

[jquinlan]

I’m trying to adjust brakes on a 29 Fordor but have run into a problem. The front passenger side brakes don’t adjust. When you turn the adjustment nut clockwise it just keeps turning until it gets to the end and you can spin the tire by hand. If I crank down hard to do another click it will lock the wheel up and that’s as far as the adjuster will go. It’s either free spinning or locked.

I took it apart this afternoon and put two new adjustment arms in the brake assembly but that didn’t make a difference. The adjuster wedge looks good – I didn’t have a replacement for that. The threads on the adjuster wedge were fine and it will thread in all the way.

What could cause brakes to not be adjustable? I’m stumped

[nkaminar]

First check to see if the rods are adjusted so the arms are at 15 degrees from vertical towards the front of the car. You may have to add a "pill" under the vertical actuating rod, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...model-a/brakes

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

First check to see if the rods are adjusted so the arms are at 15 degrees from vertical towards the front of the car. You may have to add a "pill" under the vertical actuating rod, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...model-a/brakes

The rods are new but the scenario I describe is happening with the rods disconnected so they're not a factor. I'll have to look into what a pill is under the vertical actuating rod. I'm not real experienced in this area but learning.

[nkaminar]

First install the rods and adjust them for the 15 degree arm angle. That may be all you need to do. If you still cannot adjust the brakes, add a "pill" or two. The brakes should be adjusted with the rods attached. Once the rods are adjusted to the proper length they should not be changed.

Consider getting some help from local club members with brake experience.

Make sure you have not pressed off the conical shaped dust shield for the adjuster by turning it in too far.

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

First install the rods and adjust them for the 15 degree arm angle. That may be all you need to do. If you still cannot adjust the brakes, add a "pill" or two. The brakes should be adjusted with the rods attached. Once the rods are adjusted to the proper length they should not be changed.

Consider getting some help from local club members with brake experience.

I don't think you understand my problem at all. One side of my front brakes is not AT ALL adjustable. I tried it both ways with the brake rods attached and also disconnected. The 15 degrees has no relevance to my question.

I am on this forum asking experienced people for clues to my problem and get insulted by you saying I should contact someone from my local club ??? I want to fix this problem myself if I can.

[burner31]

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Funny you should ask, just did some pills today, fairly easy.
Take off the brake rod and back off the adjusting wedge
Remove tire and brake drum, remove bottom two brake springs and move aside
Remove operating wedge, takes 3/4, the rod may come down...that ok, just hold it up
Pill goes in the top of the wedge, push it in nice and tight
Now put the wedge back on and the brake shoes, make sure the rollers are in the wedge correctly
Use the brake lever and see how it's working,

Brake drum with bearing nut just hand tight, goes on now
Put your tire on with just three lugs hand tight
Spin your tire and turn out your adjustment till the brake shoes just contact
If that feels good take it apart and tighten everything with the cotter pins
Put your brake rod back on
...And now you have to adjust the brakes, and that's a different horse.....

[shew01]

Originally Posted by jquinlan

I am on this forum asking experienced people for clues to my problem and get insulted by you saying I should contact someone from my local club ??? I want to fix this problem myself if I can.

I’m not sure that was intended as an insult. I joined the local Model A club prior to purchasing my car, and the folks have been friendly and helpful. Actually, it turns out that one club member lives about 4 miles from me, and he has cheerfully agreed to stop by my garage a number of times to help me diagnose various issues.

Sometimes, it’s difficult to describe symptoms on a forum, and pictures sometimes are hard to post and then may not be that helpful. (Lighting and shadows can make pictures hard to “read.”) So, having the experienced eyes of an talented club member looking at your car can often help diagnose a problem quicker and more effectively.

Just my opinion...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill G]

If the adjusting wedge is threading in and out, then the top end of the shoes would be going in and out to follow the wedge. If not, then my guess would be that the brake adjusting shafts are not properly seated or the shoes at the bottom are not on the roller tracks and therefore not being held out in the proper position. My 2 cents

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by burner31

Funny you should ask, just did some pills today, fairly easy.
Take off the brake rod and back off the adjusting wedge
Remove tire and brake drum, remove bottom two brake springs and move aside
Remove operating wedge, takes 3/4, the rod may come down...that ok, just hold it up
Pill goes in the top of the wedge, push it in nice and tight
Now put the wedge back on and the brake shoes, make sure the rollers are in the wedge correctly
Use the brake lever and see how it's working,

Brake drum with bearing nut just hand tight, goes on now
Put your tire on with just three lugs hand tight
Spin your tire and turn out your adjustment till the brake shoes just contact
If that feels good take it apart and tighten everything with the cotter pins
Put your brake rod back on
...And now you have to adjust the brakes, and that's a different horse.....

Thanks for the information about the pills. Much appreciated.

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by Bill G

If the adjusting wedge is threading in and out, then the top end of the shoes would be going in and out to follow the wedge. If not, then my guess would be that the brake adjusting shafts are not properly seated or the shoes at the bottom are not on the roller tracks and therefore not being held out in the proper position. My 2 cents

Yes, adjusting wedge is threading but it sure doesn't seem like the shoes are going in and out to follow the wedge. And I installed a new set of brake adjusting shafts today hoping to fix the problem and I'm pretty sure they were seated properly. In the morning I'll take it apart again and examine roller tracks more closely. Thank you Bill.

[Synchro909]

A shot here from waaaay out in left field. You are turning the adjuster the right way, aren't you?

[nkaminar]

Jim,

No insult intended. It is always good to get help from someone who has "been there." A good source of information and a good section on the brakes is included in the Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook, Vol. I, A Complete Guide For Service and Maintenance, available from the vendors for about $36. I recommend you get a copy. I have been working on Model A's for 60 years but I am constantly learning new things. That book was very helpful to me, and I read it last year.

The reason to install the rods is so that the wedge is in the correct position to adjust the brakes. Ford intended for the brakes to be adjusted with the rods attached.

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

A shot here from waaaay out in left field. You are turning the adjuster the right way, aren't you?

Yep

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Jim,

No insult intended. It is always good to get help from someone who has "been there." A good source of information and a good section on the brakes is included in the Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook, Vol. I, A Complete Guide For Service and Maintenance, available from the vendors for about $36. I recommend you get a copy. I have been working on Model A's for 60 years but I am constantly learning new things. That book was very helpful to me, and I read it last year.

The reason to install the rods is so that the wedge is in the correct position to adjust the brakes. Ford intended for the brakes to be adjusted with the rods attached.

I'm not above calling someone to help, I was just hoping someone here has experienced this before. I have that Les Andrews book you mentioned as well as a few others that were referenced yesterday.

[Benson]

Possibilities:

Is the passenger side steel drum turned out too much?

Are brake shoe linings on passenger side too thin?

Could the holes in the brake shoes where roller pins attach be worn oblong?

Roller pins have groove in them?

A-2042 BRAKE SHOE ADJUSTING SHAFTs (the ones with 45 degree angle on end) worn or holes oblong where they attach to brake shoes?

Photo will not attach - forget the photo...

[larrys40]

Jim
I’ll first start off by saying brakes are one of my staples and specialties. If your brakes won’t adjust it could be several things. From your post it sounds like the wedge is moving in... am I correct in that. Sometimes the threads in the backing plate get bad and stripped out and won’t let the adjuster work well with the resistance of the shoes anchors (a-2042).

Disassembly and diagnosis here is probably necessary. I would suggest pulling the drum off and watching and feeling the shoe action while you rotate the wedge in and out. If they are stock wedges ( non flathead teds design or other ) there should be no lock nut on the outside unless it was missing. This have a floating type which you probably don’t have but in mentioning just in case....

If you pull the shoes off by pulling the lower end of the show outward away from the wedge and slightly out to remove and then the other side you can remove the lower springs and then fold the shoes together slightly to remove the upper spring. Remove the shoes. Screw the adjuster all the way in and it should eventually force out the adjuster cap. A slight tap when it’s almost fully in may be required to tap it out. If there’s all kinds of impacted grease and dirt that will make them nit work correctly.
Inspect the ends of the shoe anchor (a-2042) and wedges and threads. If the threads are bad in the backing plate you will need another backing plate.

If the wedges don’t have good ridges the adjuster wedge will need replacing . Most don’t replace or restore all the necessary components when doing a brake job so poor brakes and poor adjustment are some of the most common issues of complaints.
Brakes can screech to a stop when done well and properly restored and adjusted.

See what’s going on and hopefully you will find the problem. Front brakes are much simpler to deal with than rears.
Always adjust the wedge first with drum and wheel on before you adjust and install the brake rod. Yes rods do need adjusting to dial things in once major brake work is done. Normal service adjustments for wear ARE done with the wedges. It’s amazing how many cars have aweful brakes!
It’s in part because many don’t know what they are doing ( I don’t mean that unkindly but by knowledge and experience) and it is also a costly job.

Hope this helps a little.
Larry Shepard

[jquinlan]

BINGO !!!

The brakes now adjust ! Last night when I posted this I was completely exhausted and frustrated. Today fresh and with the tips I got from this post, I was able to fix the problem.

I have a bunch of spare parts I bought from someone so I dug through them this morning and found some "pills" , dust covers and most importantly a nice adjusting wedge. I took everything apart and cleaned and inspected all the parts. They looked pretty good with no out of round pieces. I think the new adjuster wedge (on top) did the trick but the pill I added was without a doubt needed to properly adjust with a 15 degree tilt.

Thanks everyone for all your help. Putting the pills on were a breeze with the step by step provided here. Most importantly by doing and redoing that side of the brakes I became fairly confident with that procedure and those components which is my goal.

[Bruce of MN]

If anyone else is looking for pills, here they are:

https://www.brattons.com/front-brake-shim.html

[nkaminar]

Jim,

Congratulations. Job well done. Thanks for the feedback.

[Ivan in southeast va.]

Originally Posted by bruce of mn

if anyone else is looking for pills, here they are:

https://www.brattons.com/front-brake-shim.html

lol