Oil Leaks front and rear of the oil pan

[telmore1964]

Okay so I know this is probably going to be the million time this question has been asked but I recently like 3 weeks ago purchased a 1930 closed cab pickup model A.
I noticed my garage floor was starting to get spotty with new oil drips so I put a couple of drip pans down on the floor to help troubleshoot where the leaks where coming from also to keep the oil off the bare concrete floor. I cleaned the
underside of the engine around the oil pan and transmission and today when I had the engine running I got under there with a light so I could see better. This is what I observed. Around the area of the drain plug oil was starting to drip from that location. I could actually see two almost equal tiny streams of oil coming from the front and rear of the engine and they were combing at the oil drain plug. On the rear of the engine the oil looked like it was coming from the rear bearing area of the engine and not the hole with cotter pin under the transmission. On the front of the engine the oil looked like it was coming right under the front bearing assembly. Also is the oil pump supposed to just drop out when you remove the oil pan or does something hold it in place. Any thoughts please ?

Tom in Alaska

[Charlie Stephens]

Go back to the person you purchased it from and ask if he did anything recently that might have caused the leak. If the engine and transmission were replaced they might have left out the gasket between them.

Charlie Stephens

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by telmore1964

Okay so I know this is probably going to be the million time this question has been asked but I recently like 3 weeks ago purchased a 1930 closed cab pickup model A.
I noticed my garage floor was starting to get spotty with new oil drips so I put a couple of drip pans down on the floor to help troubleshoot where the leaks where coming from also to keep the oil off the bare concrete floor. I cleaned the
underside of the engine around the oil pan and transmission and today when I had the engine running I got under there with a light so I could see better. This is what I observed. Around the area of the drain plug oil was starting to drip from that location. I could actually see two almost equal tiny streams of oil coming from the front and rear of the engine and they were combing at the oil drain plug. On the rear of the engine the oil looked like it was coming from the rear bearing area of the engine and not the hole with cotter pin under the transmission. On the front of the engine the oil looked like it was coming right under the front bearing assembly. Also is the oil pump supposed to just drop out when you remove the oil pan or does something hold it in place. Any thoughts please ?

Tom in Alaska

Here is a previous Post/String.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142001


To hold the oil pump in the motor when the pan is dropped - In the side of the block there is an oil port bolt, the bolt is removed and a special bolt is swapped in which will hold the pump from dropping. The Special bolt is available from most Model A suppliers. Recommended is purchasing/referencing the Les Andrews book on working on and repairing model As.

[1crosscut]

The oil pump is held in place by a spring under the oil pump that pushes against the oil pain. When the oil pan is removed the pump will usually drop free of the engine and stay in the oil pan as it is removed. Sometimes the oil pump will stay in the engine after the pan is removed. Be careful if this happens because it can unexpectedly drop out after the pan is out of the way striking the floor and damaging it.
The special screw for holding the pump in place is very handy for installing the pump and oil pan but not necessary for removing it.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

My advice, based on it seems you may be newer to Model As,


My opinion,


If not familiar with As, read and completely understand the As owner manual, lot of basic/great info, and as posted above get the Les Andres Book. These will answer a lot of questions. Also use the search feature on this forum, and ask us. Welcome to the Barn


It is possible to get an A oil tight, no leaks. Your A seems a little excessive (small streams). A little drippage here and there is not uncommon. You just put down a little cat litter, or a catch pan, just keep an eye on it, monitor your fluid levels. Some seals/gaskets are a major undertaking.


If you are lucky, your leaks are just Oil Pan Gaskets, a couple are rope style which seal in the motor bearing/trans shaft areas. Could be they were not previously replaced/installed correctly, maybe the gaskets are worn, maybe the pan bolts were not tightened well.


If running cork style gaskets over tightening can warp the pan and also cause the gaskets to move/squeeze and not position correctly. Some recommend using an anaerobic gasket sealer on one side of the gasket to help seal, and also position/hold the gasket in place during assembly. Use only a skim coat of sealer, applied using your finger, do not want excess sealer floating around in your oil.


Oil Pan Gasket sets are relatively inexpensive and easily replaced, worth a try to see if that is your issue.


Mine had leaks too - found that replacing the gasket set and tightening things down (speedometer cable, fill/drain bolts, etc.) helped a lot. Used a minimal amount of anti seize compound.


Getting your oil pump in back in - recommend you read the Les Andrews Book, get a friend to screw the bolt in while you position it back in place, before putting the oil pan back on. Do not forget to install the spring when putting the pan back on, and removing the holding bolt. As long as the pan is off, pull out the oil baffle in the bottom of the pan and clean out the bottom of the pan. If it does not have the magnet oil plug, perhaps install one.


This is all a part of the process of getting to know your A, and the condition it is in. Take things slowly, since the truck is new to you.


I also have a late 30 Closed Cab - Post a couple of Pics if you can. As a side note, a lot of the trucks are geared lower than cars. If yours is geared lower do not expect to keep up with others at speeds they will wish to go at. 35 -40 is usually a comfortable speed, anything above 45 is pushing the things. Originally in the 30s, 30 mph was max, conditions of the roads/speed limits/etc.

[Benson]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

For the record .....

Screwing a std thread bolt into this hole will destroy the tapered pipe thread inside the casting as installed by Ford.


BUT if you tighten the second screw down too much on the tool it is possible break the thin casting in this area of the block.

The tool as sold uses a tapered pipe thread bushing as such does NOT destroy the threads inside the block.

When installing the tool remember it is a tapered thread ... STOP tightening when it gets tight as it might crack the casting.

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

My advice, based on it seems you may be newer to Model As,


My opinion,


If not familiar with As, read and completely understand the As owner manual, lot of basic/great info, and as posted above get the Les Andres Book. These will answer a lot of questions. Also use the search feature on this forum, and ask us. Welcome to the Barn


It is possible to get an A oil tight, no leaks. Your A seems a little excessive (small streams). A little drippage here and there is not uncommon. You just put down a little cat litter, or a catch pan, just keep an eye on it, monitor your fluid levels. Some seals/gaskets are a major undertaking.


If you are lucky, your leaks are just Oil Pan Gaskets, a couple are rope style which seal in the motor bearing/trans shaft areas. Could be they were not previously replaced/installed correctly, maybe the gaskets are worn, maybe the pan bolts were not tightened well.


If running cork style gaskets over tightening can warp the pan and also cause the gaskets to move/squeeze and not position correctly. Some recommend using an anaerobic gasket sealer on one side of the gasket to help seal, and also position/hold the gasket in place during assembly. Use only a skim coat of sealer, applied using your finger, do not want excess sealer floating around in your oil.


Oil Pan Gasket sets are relatively inexpensive and easily replaced, worth a try to see if that is your issue.


Mine had leaks too - found that replacing the gasket set and tightening things down (speedometer cable, fill/drain bolts, etc.) helped a lot. Used a minimal amount of anti seize compound.


Getting your oil pump in back in - recommend you read the Les Andrews Book, get a friend to screw the bolt in while you position it back in place, before putting the oil pan back on. Do not forget to install the spring when putting the pan back on, and removing the holding bolt. As long as the pan is off, pull out the oil baffle in the bottom of the pan and clean out the bottom of the pan. If it does not have the magnet oil plug, perhaps install one.


This is all a part of the process of getting to know your A, and the condition it is in. Take things slowly, since the truck is new to you.


I also have a late 30 Closed Cab - Post a couple of Pics if you can. As a side note, a lot of the trucks are geared lower than cars. If yours is geared lower do not expect to keep up with others at speeds they will wish to go at. 35 -40 is usually a comfortable speed, anything above 45 is pushing the things. Originally in the 30s, 30 mph was max, conditions of the roads/speed limits/etc.

[divcoone]

Over filling crank case will also cause oil leaks.

[aermotor]

If no oil is coming out of the bell housing drain the leaks are mostly always the rear pan cork gaskets or other areas forward of that point. Oil has a strange way of traveling around under a car and appears to come from places it doesn't. If no oil is coming from the bell housing drain you are lucky. When pulling the pan I would Plastigage the main journals just for kicks as taking the pan off is half the work. Let it drip to a lower level and see if the dripping lessens or stops.

John

[Marshall V. Daut]

If the leaking oil in the rear is running only down the back of the pan, but not the front of the flywheel housing, odds are that the cork gasket is at fault, as others have suggested. Getting this cork gasket seated properly in the rear main bearing cap's groove and keeping it there while the pan is shoved back into place can lead to twisted or broken cork gaskets. Some guys cut this gasket exactly to length so that it fits into the groove and butt ends against the block. This will lead to seepage because the cork has not been properly compressed to hold back the oil. Ensure when replacing the cork here that it has a slight "loop" sticking up in the middle. The oil pan will compress against this loop and make a nice, tight seal, aided by some judicious use of sealant. Be sure to put some sealant on the bases of each side of the cork where it meets the block.
If, however, the oil leak in the rear is streaming down the front of the flywheel housing, it could be a loose rear main adjustment or even a missing gasket between the flywheel housing and engine block. It's easy to forget this gasket if a person hasn't rebuilt Model A engines before. Hopefully you will luck out and the cause of your leak is just a mis-installed rear cork gasket. If the rear main bearing cap needs adjustment, well...that's a job we all end up doing sooner later. You will also have to adjust the center main to keep the crank in alignment. 'Might as well do all three main bearings while you have the pan off, although the front bearing usually doesn't need many if any shims removed to achieve the ideal 0.0015" clearance. This will give you a chance to inspect the condition of the Babbitt material in the three main bearing caps. If the rear main Babbitt is cracked, no amount of gasketing or shim adjustment will stop the leakage. Only a re-Babbitting job will do that.
As to oil dripping from the oil plug, you probably know that there should be a gasket beneath its head. In 1928 it was copper, I believe. Thereafter Ford used a fiber washer gasket. I should think the fiber gasket would do a better job since it will compress better and form a tighter seal. If there is no gasket, that's probably why oil drips so quickly from here.
The front leakage on the oil pan can be traced to any number of causes. The donut seal in the pan may have been cut too short on the ends, lessening the effectiveness of the compression seal around the pulley's shank. Both donut seals might be at fault here. Also, if a well-used pulley was installed, its shank will most likely be "Mae West'ed", meaning worn in the middle where the donut seals ride. This makes the two donuts' job more difficult because they can't come in close enough contact with the pulley shank to form a good seal. This is assuming the original style donuts have been installed and not the modern lip seal. That requires more work to repair if the rubber lip has gone bad or the pulley is worn undersized. Ensure, too, that the four bolts along the front of the pan rail are good and tight, especially the two directly on either side of the pulley.
Follow other suggestions posted so far, such as not overfilling the oil level. Keep it halfway between "L" and "F" (less than 1/2 quart difference), which will help reduce the engine's tendency to leak from the rear main, as well as from between the front and rear seals.
Marshall