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Old 05-16-2021, 10:39 AM   #1
Ricosan
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Default Condenser

Hey Guys,

I’ve cut open an original condenser for my ‘34 and stuffed a NAPA FA5 inside for a snug fit. The end of the FA5 sits on the original spring in the old condenser.
My question: how do I attach the two without damage to the FA5?

Richard
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Condenser

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Originally Posted by Ricosan View Post
Hey Guys,

I’ve cut open an original condenser for my ‘34 and stuffed a NAPA FA5 inside for a snug fit. The end of the FA5 sits on the original spring in the old condenser.
My question: how do I attach the two without damage to the FA5?

Richard
Just a little solder will work fine. I've done this very same thing with a Hunt's Magneto condenser.
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Condenser

I would use a low temp solder and flux. Good advice Kube.
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Old 05-16-2021, 12:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Condenser

Given the amount of time you're putting into this - and that you probably don't want the condenser to fail, you might consider using a higher quality magneto condenser instead of the NAPA stuff. It used to be that NAPA supplied high quality condensers - now it seems that too many of them fail . . . usually at the worst possible time. Consider buying a .36uF Vertex magneto condenser - Bubba should have them. They are not cheap - but they are about the only type of condenser that I run these days.
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Old 05-16-2021, 02:29 PM   #5
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Given the amount of time you're putting into this - and that you probably don't want the condenser to fail, you might consider using a higher quality magneto condenser instead of the NAPA stuff. It used to be that NAPA supplied high quality condensers - now it seems that too many of them fail . . . usually at the worst possible time. Consider buying a .36uF Vertex magneto condenser - Bubba should have them. They are not cheap - but they are about the only type of condenser that I run these days.
That's what the Joe Hunt Magneto condensers are that I use. I believe that's where "bubba" gets his. About $30 but well worth it in my opinion.
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Old 05-16-2021, 02:41 PM   #6
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Totally agree with Kube and going for the "Bubba/Vertex/Joe Hunt condensers. Do it once and be done. I have done this for my 32 and 40. Dig out your soldering iron and go for it.
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Old 05-16-2021, 02:43 PM   #7
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I'll bet I've killed the sale of about 100 sales of my "Trash Cans" by recommending these when "lookin' good" is not important.

It's for the good of the hobby. (Obsession?)
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Old 05-17-2021, 06:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Condenser

Don't use the FA5 for a V8 it has the capacitance for a 4 Cyl.
As mentioned above the magneto Cap. is the way to go but you can not use the same mounting technique since the magneto Cap. has a wire lead.

Keep the internals of the old Cap. away from you since it is carcinogenic.
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Old 05-17-2021, 06:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Condenser

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Originally Posted by tubman View Post
I'll bet I've killed the sale of about 100 sales of my "Trash Cans" by recommending these when "lookin' good" is not important.

It's for the good of the hobby. (Obsession?)
But, you are one solid dude . . . and we appreciate it!
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Condenser

Thanks for all the great info. Looking hard at Vertex.
Too bad about the FA5.

Richard
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: Condenser

Hey Guys

Found Joe Hunt’s website. Tracked down a .36uF vertex Magnitogorsk condenser. Looks like it will work. I ordered it.
Richard
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Old 05-17-2021, 11:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Condenser

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Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Given the amount of time you're putting into this - and that you probably don't want the condenser to fail, you might consider using a higher quality magneto condenser instead of the NAPA stuff. It used to be that NAPA supplied high quality condensers - now it seems that too many of them fail . . . usually at the worst possible time. Consider buying a .36uF Vertex magneto condenser - Bubba should have them. They are not cheap - but they are about the only type of condenser that I run these days.
IH-200 is a magneto condenser that works and lasts for years with
no point damage. Skip has sold hundreds of them. G.M.
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Old 05-17-2021, 11:59 AM   #13
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According to Michael at Third Gen he has found a quality replacement also.
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Old 05-17-2021, 01:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Condenser

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the additional options for this project. If this doesn’t fit right, I’ll check with Michael and Skip.
Thanks again

Richard
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Old 05-17-2021, 07:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: Condenser

I only run .36 UF Magneto Condensers in my V8s and I recommend them to other guys when I rebuild V8 distributor, Recommended by Bubba all others have too low a M.F.D.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:51 PM   #16
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I only run .36 UF Magneto Condensers in my V8s and I recommend them to other guys when I rebuild V8 distributor, Recommended by Bubba all others have too low a M.F.D.
I will have to challenge this statement. The capacitance of a condenser is best determined by several factors, the two most important being coil inductance and the optimum speed of the engine. I have not done any research on early (pre-war) Ford coils, but from what I have seen, early Fords seem to have required more capacitance than current can coils. Because of age and attrition, there are few (if any) original early Ford coils actually being used these days, and just about everyone is using something more modern. Most modern "can" coils (and, I believe "Skip's coils) are of modern manufacture and, in fact, are better suited to condensers in the lower 20's range (which most modern capacitors are). I believe the long-time .36 micro-farad recommendation is just a "hangover" from the old Mallory "trash can" condensers that were so popular 40 or 50 years ago. That recommendation seems to be just an expression of the old "if some is good, more is better" convention.

In all actuality, the actual capacitance of the condenser is not that important as long as it is within reason. For most uses, a .22 is as good, if not better than a .36. What is more important is the ability to with stand the voltage spikes present in the "dirty" power from cars with generators, as well as the heat and vibration encountered in day to day automotive operation.

I have a pre-war Ford document on my computer in Florida that list the condensers they supplied with their distributors back in the day and shows capacitances from the low .20's to the low .40's, as well as the interesting statement that "too low a capacitance will accelerate point wear, while too much capacitance will hurt performance".
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Condenser

I have to ask, is .22 considered low and .36 considered high? I think I've asked this before, but you know about age and memory.
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:53 PM   #18
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That is correct.
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Old 05-18-2021, 06:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Condenser

Just to add some more mud to the situation, there are two main Vertex magneto condensers - one at .28uF and the heavier duty one (designed for the higher output versions of the mag - usually the external coil versions) that is .036uF. Also, the .28uF is about $15 - $18 while the .36uF one is pushing $40. I see no reason not to try the .28uF version . . . maybe I'll order a few and report back.

The challenge is that I'm sure they will work just fine on my distributor machine - only time will tell on actual usage on cars.
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:04 AM   #20
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It's not all that hard to understand. In my earlier post, I said that one of the factors that effects condenser capacitance is engine speed. The faster an engine turns, the more sparks are needed per time period, and more capacitance is required to absorb all of the extra energy produced per time period. The magnetos being mentioned here are units intended specifically for racing, where engine RPM's are much higher than for a normal street driven car. In such a case, the accelerated point deterioration caused by low speed operation is acceptable. I also believe this was Mallory's reason for making their "Trash Cans" with a higher capacitance (.36 micro-farads) than normal, as their condensers, too, were intended to be used on "racing units".

The question is point deterioration. If you can accept possible accelerated point wear, the magneto condensers will work just fine on the street. In the final analysis, unless it's way out in left field, the actual difference in capacitance in the condensers available manifests itself only in differing rates of point deterioration.
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Old 05-18-2021, 12:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Condenser

Hey Denny,,,,,what is the rating on your new condensers ?
You might have it posted somewhere ,,,,I might have missed it .
Either way,,,,they are a work of art,,,I love mine !

Tommy
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Old 05-18-2021, 01:02 PM   #22
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Mine are .22. They will work well with all modern type coils.

I believe that you could run a .22 or a .36, and never see a difference in performance. After 20K miles there might be a slight difference in point wear, which depending on coil inductance and the type of operation the engine was subjected to, could go either way.

A few years ago, there was a guy on he H.A.M.B that had a theory that specifically matching condenser capacitance to coil inductance at the desired engine speed might yield superior ignition performance. I don't think it went anywhere.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:51 AM   #23
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Are the “magneto” condensers polarity sensitive? I have them running on both +ve and -ve ground systems for years with no problems. Just recently heard of one on 6 volt +ve ground that apparently destroyed itself. Any ideas on this one?
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Old 07-26-2021, 04:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Condenser

Quote:
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A few years ago, there was a guy on he H.A.M.B that had a theory that specifically matching condenser capacitance to coil inductance at the desired engine speed might yield superior ignition performance. I don't think it went anywhere.
Don't think it is theory, but basic electronics for a IC circuit. An engineer for any automotive company is going to design the ignition circuit with the proper values, that's their job. Does it make a major difference in day to day driving, apparently not that much.
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Old 07-26-2021, 05:08 PM   #25
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Mine are .22. They will work well with all modern type coils.

I believe that you could run a .22 or a .36, and never see a difference in performance. After 20K miles there might be a slight difference in point wear, which depending on coil inductance and the type of operation the engine was subjected to, could go either way.

A few years ago, there was a guy on he H.A.M.B that had a theory that specifically matching condenser capacitance to coil inductance at the desired engine speed might yield superior ignition performance. I don't think it went anywhere.
You are right on the value (within reason) not making any difference.

As to the guy on the HAMB, that could have been me.
One thing I would like to mention, it was NOT a theory. It is etched in stone fact. It has to do with the laws of physics, inductive and capacitance reactance and resonance. (and I know you are aware of all that)
However, due to the necessary coil design we can "get away" with widely varying condenser values with only slight degradation of spark value and point life.
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:01 PM   #26
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IH-200 is a magneto condenser that works and lasts for years with
no point damage. Skip has sold hundreds of them. G.M.
No failures in 20 years.
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:25 PM   #27
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Are the “magneto” condensers polarity sensitive?
No. By necessity they have to be AC compatible, The mag has NO commutator so the primary puts out sine wave AC. Since this is an AC circuit, this accounts for the very low to no pitting of the points.
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Old 07-29-2021, 11:14 AM   #28
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If I take the original condenser and gut it and slid in a IH 200 and glue it………will it affect the performance of the new condenser ? I just happen to have a small aluminum cap that fits over the cut off end.

Thx…….Mike
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Old 07-29-2021, 01:08 PM   #29
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The glue will probably act as an insulator and may affect the operation of the condenser. You would be better off using conductive epoxy. It is used to attach electrical antennas etc. to car windows. I got some from Amazon.

The bottom line is that if it works, it works; if it doesn't, well you tried. I'll guess it's dependent on the amount of glue used and the relative sizes of the cases.

Last edited by tubman; 07-29-2021 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 07-29-2021, 01:21 PM   #30
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If I take the original condenser and gut it and slid in a IH 200 and glue it………will it affect the performance of the new condenser ? I just happen to have a small aluminum cap that fits over the cut off end.

Thx…….Mike
You have to be very careful if you solder it not to get it to hot. G.M.
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Old 07-29-2021, 01:24 PM   #31
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Tub and GM ……. Just cut the original open and in the process I cut my thumb. Blood everywhere. More later !
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Old 07-29-2021, 02:08 PM   #32
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I don't think blood is going to improve it one bit!

Hope it's not serious.
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Old 07-29-2021, 03:53 PM   #33
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Seery…..you’re a funny guy ! Got it all mopped up and a couple bandages. Geez….

Got the new condenser into old housing without glue and snapped on the cap. Will install later and see how it goes. That’s providing I don’t need stitches !

Mike
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Old 07-29-2021, 04:06 PM   #34
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Without something to ensure consistent contact between the new condenser and the old housing, you might see some intermittence. Could you jam enough aluminum foil in there to ensure good contact?

Hope the finger gets better.
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:57 PM   #35
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The finger will heal up but will the condenser work?
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:54 PM   #36
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Guys no matter whose condensor you use IT MUST HAVE A GOOD ENGINE GROUND !!!
the vertex unit uses a internal soldered ground ???
I use the .36mfds spec and have never seen a defective one ......
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:23 AM   #37
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Finger is healing but I can't believe the amount of blood ! Geez....

Got every inserted in the original canister but would not start. Took it out.....hooked up the new condenser and bang....started right up and runs as smooth as glass !

Thx
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