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05-08-2021, 08:02 PM | #1 |
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Location: Centerville, Iowa
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Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Had my engine rebuilt, new bearings, balanced crank, high lift cam, lightened flywheel, v8 clutch, bigger intake valves, high compression head. I have about 200 miles on it now. Starter would hardly turn the engine over to start it, so I took it to a reputable shop that rebuilds starters. He put a new armature in it, and thought it was good to go. I installed it, and it will start it, but still turns over very slow. I installed a new start switch, cleaned the surfaces where the starter bolts to the engine, new battery, new cables, grounded from the battery to the frame, and to the transmission. About all I can do to turn it over with the crank. Do I just need to drive it some more and wait for it to break-in?
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05-08-2021, 08:54 PM | #2 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Do you have the proper size battery cable ? I use double ought ( 00 )!
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05-08-2021, 10:49 PM | #3 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Mike, Your last sentence tells me you know what you should do with it. As you ay, It will free-up with use so use it. That's what they were made for.
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05-09-2021, 09:49 AM | #4 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Also check that you have a good ground path for our starter. After the engine and starter rebuild, both are probably beautifully painted to the point where there's little bare metal contact between the starter and engine. Scrape off some paint behind the starter bolt ears and where they bolt to the engine to get a good ground.
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05-09-2021, 10:02 AM | #5 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
If it's that hard to turn over I would surmise that whoever assembled that engine didn't know what they were doing. It shouldn't be that tight.
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05-09-2021, 10:35 AM | #6 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
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05-09-2021, 10:43 AM | #7 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
A Model A requires more piston clearance than a modern car.
Years alo I had a engine re-bored at a local shop. They gave the pistons about 4 thousands clearance. When warm the engine was very tight for a long time.
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05-09-2021, 11:46 AM | #8 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Could be timing, high compression head, clearances, or needs breaking-in.
John
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05-09-2021, 06:18 PM | #9 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Thanks for all the ideas. I did clean the area where the starter meets the bell housing, and I made my own battery cables out of welding cable so I could put a disconnect switch in. I think just driving it is the solution. Thanks again!
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05-09-2021, 07:06 PM | #10 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
NOT Your Problem but..... careless assembly using three 'too long' starter bolts that will lock against the flywheel has caused many unnecessary engine removals to re check motor clearances that where correct.....
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05-09-2021, 11:02 PM | #11 | |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Quote:
‘high compression” head How high compression ? |
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05-10-2021, 09:48 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Quote:
You might jumper the terminals on the disconnect switch with a heavy cable like a jumper cable and see if it cranks faster. Last edited by Benson; 05-14-2021 at 09:37 AM. |
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05-10-2021, 06:16 PM | #13 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I would either disconnect one side of the cutoff switch and bolt it to the side on disconnect switch or a jumper cable across the cutoff switch.
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05-10-2021, 07:19 PM | #14 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Mike, It sounds like you are doing all the right things. My only suggestion is to check the voltage at the starter terminal when cranking the engine over. That will tell you a lot. Maybe you need a new battery.
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05-10-2021, 08:06 PM | #15 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
If you can barely turn it over with the crank, It is too tight. I just worked on one that had one rod at less than .0005" and it was too much for the starter. It had just been rebuilt by a big name rebuilder. One shim solved the problem.
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05-11-2021, 04:07 AM | #16 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Thanks for the ideas! I will check the disconnect switch, and voltage. 6 to 1 high compression head. I will try those ideas, and post again. Thanks! Mike
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05-11-2021, 11:02 PM | #17 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Rod clearance is critical, as stated, even one shim can make a world of difference.
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05-12-2021, 07:55 AM | #18 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I had the same issue, same rebuild configuration as you have.
After the first 500 miles it was much better. After 1K it now starts great. During the first 500 miles I was a bit careful on where I parked, hoping to get a roll and bump start. I also kept the idle up a bit to prevent stalling, and having to push it to the side of the road. |
05-12-2021, 08:26 AM | #19 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
When i got the optima battery my car cranked faster, fast enough that i was accused of converting to 12V ---what battery do you have and how old is it?
originally with the first engine rebuild on my car the starter had trouble, loosened up after 500-700 miles, then it got loose enough to knock at 3000 miles |
05-12-2021, 10:16 AM | #20 | |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Quote:
Also, another item often overlooked is ring end gap. Not enough gap on even one ring is enough to make an engine overly stiff, especially when hot.
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05-12-2021, 04:44 PM | #21 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I would also reccomend driving it. Several people in our club have had the same situation and driving it freed them up.
John
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05-12-2021, 09:00 PM | #22 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I by-passed the battery disconnect and nothing changed. It does have high compression head. I have about 150 miles on the rebuild now. I checked the battery voltage and it was only 5.1 volts, which didn't sound good. I have the battery charger on it now to see if that helps. I really appreciate the ideas! I will let you know how I finally solve this thing.
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05-13-2021, 06:49 AM | #23 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
The Hagerty Redline videos of the Model a Discussed this issue. The Babbit has to wear in it's clearance. Hagerty used another car to pull/bump start their engine rather than the starter. I have no personal experience so don't take this as gospel.
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05-13-2021, 10:52 PM | #24 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
if Babbet bearings are set up correctly during a rebuild, they should not be so tight that the starter with a good battery will not start the car.
You only having 5.1 volts could very well be the issue, however you previously stated that the engine is tight when trying to turn it by hand. You may have 2 issues going on. Chris W. |
05-14-2021, 12:41 PM | #25 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Drag it behind your pickup with the plugs out in third gear for a month or take it back to the rebuilder.
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05-15-2021, 09:40 AM | #26 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
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05-16-2021, 12:39 PM | #27 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Find a machine shop that knows what they are doing. Forget scraping, use time saver.
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05-16-2021, 08:10 PM | #28 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Put the battery on a good charger overnight, and still only 5.1 volts. Battery was only 3 months old, but who knows what was up with that. Bought a new batter, and now it starts like I expected. Still a little tight from the fresh rebuild and high compression head, but much better overall. Thanks for all your ideas and encouragement!
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05-16-2021, 08:28 PM | #29 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I have ruined some very good batteries so I speak with the voice of experience. The last battery was just last year. It was in my travel trailer and the solar charger was set too high and cooked the battery. This is usually the case with the batteries that I have ruined, they were cooked with too high of a charging rate. The other way I have ruined batteries is at the opposite end by letting them sit uncharged for a long time. The batteries build up sulfate crystals on the plates that cannot take place in the charging cycle. I suppose one can buy a bad battery, but in my experience I am the cause of them going bad.
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05-16-2021, 08:32 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Quote:
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05-17-2021, 10:17 AM | #31 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I've had new batteries that after a day or too were NFG (not found good).
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05-17-2021, 11:56 AM | #32 | |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
Quote:
David Serrano |
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05-17-2021, 12:11 PM | #33 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
My battery charger is one of the newer ones that monitors the charge and tapers off as it reaches full charge. I then tested it with my battery tester, the kind they use at the autoparts store, and it tested bad. The new battery seemed to fix things, but only time will tell. Thanks for all your help!
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05-20-2021, 12:30 PM | #34 |
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Re: Starter not quite up to the task after rebuild
I also had this experience with a newly rebuilt engine. I used a 12 volt battery for a while. It was a pain because I had to remove the battery from my modern car. Yes, it is tight so don't run it fast and keep the temperatures low by not running for long periods (not over 15 minutes at a time). After a couple of weeks, it was like magic. The car started on 6v just like it should and we never looked back. Good luck with it. Ed
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