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04-23-2021, 06:42 PM | #1 |
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49 ford clutch chatter
i put in new clutch , pressure plate , throw out bearing , pilot bearing. and had the flywheel surfaced . when you let out the clutch it shakes the whole car terrible... no funny noises and the pedal feel good it has new motor and trans mount and everything is tight and its not lowered ... can anyone tell me what could be wrong before i take out the trans. and if i take out the trans what would i look for? i did a search and found the chutch could be in backwards is this poss? it feel like the clutch is working right. its a 49 ford car 239 ci. 3 speed no overdrive. thanks for any help . thanks, tony
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04-23-2021, 07:35 PM | #2 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
If the clutch was in backwards, it wouldn't work at all.
Is this clutch setup an offshore cheapie, brand X, or is it a well known brand ? .
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04-23-2021, 08:45 PM | #3 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
thats what i thought too, the pedal feels good... i dont remember the brand but it came from shoebox central
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04-23-2021, 09:04 PM | #4 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Bad motor mounts can cause this problem, Have you checked them out?
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04-23-2021, 09:20 PM | #5 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
motor and trans mounts are new
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04-23-2021, 10:11 PM | #6 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
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I think that before I tore it apart, I'd try one more thing. I believe I would put the front bumper against a big ol' tree and try aggressively slipping that clutch and burning it in for a few seconds. DD |
04-24-2021, 06:53 AM | #7 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
The emergency and chock blocks on all4 wheels will not damage the bumper or any other part.
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04-24-2021, 07:09 AM | #8 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Tony, check your PM's
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04-24-2021, 07:29 AM | #9 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
sounds like the fingers on the PP are out of adjustment,you have to remove trans,i would get a clutch from fort wayne clutch and be done with it
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04-24-2021, 07:50 AM | #10 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
i seen the new pressure plate had bolts that adjust where the throw out bearings ride i dont think my old one had these . my old parts were still good but thought i would put in new parts while it was apart. mistake... i havent tried burning it in . it shook so bat i didnt want to run it
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04-24-2021, 07:55 AM | #11 | |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Quote:
I bought a Centerforce "package" (duel friction/PP and flywheel) for less than a 100 dollar$ difference drop shipped from JEGS. Much easier on the leg than the 68 Mustang 10" I was using and good to 500hp |
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04-24-2021, 07:59 AM | #12 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
burning it in
an old wives tale because someone did an install with dirty/greasy hands or components. Yes I did it once until I was taught better (cleanliness next to Godliness) |
04-24-2021, 08:04 AM | #13 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
The theory of chatter: the enemy grease oil which being all new parts I say thats out.
Clutch chatter is much like a warped brake rotor like a clutch disk - it grabs runs free grabs over and over, that's chatter. resurfaced fly wheel, that's good. My bet is the disk has face run out. If the disk was chucked up in a mandrel in a lathe the dial indicator may go crazy with face run out -its just not flat on both sides- we knew this back then and used the tree to burnish it in using 2nd or 3rd speed. Myself new everything and it chattered so I take off in 2nd just slipping the clutch now its fine try that seemed to ware off the high spots. bottom line think of this new or rebuilt on the disk, its linings removed, bead blasted new linings riveted on, in the box and out the door-quality control No. and the same goes for the pressure plate too ! |
04-24-2021, 08:18 AM | #14 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
im gonna try and get it apart today but i dont really know what im looking for. i guess if everything look ok i will order another a new clutch kit from ft wayne
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04-24-2021, 08:51 AM | #15 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I agree that "burnin' it in" probably won't work. Has anyone ever done it successfully?
You may also want to check this thread out where I was able to deal with uneven fingers on a pressure plate : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...pressure+plate. |
04-24-2021, 01:15 PM | #16 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
The old 9 1/2-inch Long type clutch in it's original form is a pretty good clutch. I don't trust the modern reproductions. I send all my OEM clutches to Ft Wayne Clutch for rebuild and haven't had a problem yet. I send all my Mercury 10-inch Borg & Beck clutches too and they have never had a problem with a properly resurfaced flywheel.
The late type diaphragm clutches are good but they are generally on a Borg & Beck type bolt pattern and they require special fingers to work with the OEM throw out bearing. |
04-24-2021, 05:50 PM | #17 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I spoke to Fort Wayne clutch about this. There is no diaphragm pressure plate to fit the 9.5” pattern of the 49-51 cars. I ended up buying a 10” diaphragm pressure plate with the long 10” pattern from FW clutch, and will have the flywheel redrilled for 10” long. I also got an early T-bird clutch disc 10” with the correct 1”, 10 spline center for the original 49-51 transmission. I haven’t tried any of this out yet! Ken
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04-24-2021, 07:40 PM | #18 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
i took the clutch out today and it looks good and everything was tight i looked at fort waynes kit and it looks the same as what i have im not really sure what to do . i dont think you could put the clutch in backwards, it wont fit into the flywheel. any sugestions ? thanks tony
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04-24-2021, 08:24 PM | #19 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Make sure your clutch release bearing is a good fit on the release hub and is not cocked hitting the fingers unevenly.
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04-24-2021, 08:45 PM | #20 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I would at least check the "fingers" and make sure they are close to even.
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04-24-2021, 09:06 PM | #21 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
those adjusting screws on the p p are all turned out a little bit. the other new ones ive looked at looks like they are in all the way but its hard to tell in the pics i dont know whether to buy just a clutch or the whole kit . i would hate to buy just the clutch and have the same problem. wish i new someone that new more than me that could look at it. lol thanks for all the help
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04-24-2021, 09:26 PM | #22 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
You can't check finger adjustment with the pressure plate removed, and measuring to the clutch disc surface is not accurate enough. Remove the flywheel and place about four 3" pieces of 5/16" square keystock on the clutch surface and bolt down the pressure plate (without the disc). Now you can accurately measure the distance from the flywheel to the tips of the fingers. Adjust as needed.
While the flywheel is off, chuck it in a lathe to make sure it runs true. I had a flywheel once that had been actually resurfaced at an angle! |
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04-24-2021, 09:43 PM | #23 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I have lightened a couple flywheels that when mounted in the lathe they were not true with the crank flange surface. I even faced off my arbor in the lathe to be sure, and no, it was the flywheel off
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04-24-2021, 10:19 PM | #24 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I checked my 1950 Motor Manual for finger height adjustment and it varies according to model of the pressure plate. 10" clutches go from 1 3/4" to 2 1/8" but yours should be close; just get them all exactly even. Another tip in the manual was to set the cover on the flywheel and line the bolts up, then make sure the cover sits flat and even on the flywheel. Someone may have tightened just one or two bolts instead of all gradually, and warped the cover.
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04-24-2021, 10:25 PM | #25 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
deleted by Original Poster, as the problem has been found...
.
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04-24-2021, 11:28 PM | #26 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
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The above was posted Feb 21. This relates to slop in clutch operating links. Could be worth checking out. Phil NZ |
04-25-2021, 08:42 AM | #27 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
You said you had the flywheel resurfaced. Did you get the flywheel and clutch pressure plate re-balanced as a unit? Very important in my opinion. Also make sure to have them mark the position of both pieces during the balancing procedure.
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04-25-2021, 09:03 AM | #28 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Depending on the quality of the new clutch disc, the "air gap" may not be sufficient. The air gap is the measurement between the friction disc(s) and the spring steel disc plate. If not large enough, there is no "give" when engaging the clutch. A friend had the same problem with a 51 Mercury (could not drive the vehicle), called Fort Wayne Clutch and they diagnosed the problem, sold him a new disc and no more problem.
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04-26-2021, 07:08 AM | #29 | |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Quote:
balanced between precision ball bearing centers..on the lathe. |
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04-26-2021, 08:14 AM | #30 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Had a similar problem with my 50 found out after numerous tries that when i had the flywheel resurfaced the first time it was done on a surface grinder after about three times apart i took the flywheel to a different machine shop and they resurfaced it on i believe was a milling machine they told me it was shaped like a saucer dish plate Fixed the problem hope this helps
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04-26-2021, 08:42 AM | #31 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I wonder how true the crankshaft flange generally is. It wouldn't be too hard to measure flywheel face and edge run-out with the flywheel installed on the crankshaft.
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04-26-2021, 10:49 AM | #32 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I'd been chasing BAD chatter for quite some time. Did the mounts, etc.....
so all my mounts were new or in good shape. Still there and only 2% improved. I discovered the linkage rod was worn pretty badly. Fixed that and got rid of about another 90% of the issue. My guess is that my clutch friction material is probably crap. Any slight issue I now have is very temperature related and only happens when the clutch, flywheel and pressure plate are really hot. |
04-26-2021, 06:21 PM | #33 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
i took the flywheel , pp , clutch to the machine shop that surfaced the flywheel so they can look it over and see about adjusting the pressure plate . it really wouldnt bother me to buy a 2nd clutch kit and throw away the 200 + dollar kit with zero miles on it if i knew for sure that would fix my problem but im worried that i might have the same problem and get to do all this again. this isnt a little shutter, it about shakes your teeth out when let out on the clutch. thanks again for all the replys ...
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04-26-2021, 07:27 PM | #34 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Ive just had my fly wheel lightened , surfaced and the clutch all balanced. new clutch plate from a different supplier [not FW], it has the shrouds around the springs.. Its a shocker! the clutch just grabs, very difficult to control..
BTW Ive never had a clutch from Fort Wayne that the fingers have contacted together.. and they weld them...
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04-27-2021, 05:54 AM | #35 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
tony. Call Ft Wayne, and talk to them about your clutch disk. They will explain it better than I did.
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04-27-2021, 07:19 AM | #36 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I sent my pp to ft. wayne for adj. as it was unused bought 35 years ago and the fingers were not even. they set the heights and welded the threads to prevent movement. cost 25.00
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04-27-2021, 08:35 AM | #37 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I think that if all looks correct than it probably is correct. I would look for a different solution to the problem. Tubeman mentioned checking motor mounts and many transmission mount. If the chatter or vibration is real bad it has to leave a mark somewhere. Also if you put a straight edge on the clutch plate and pressure plate you might see imperfections. Good luck.
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04-27-2021, 09:48 AM | #38 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
The older Fords of the 59 series era and some prior had problems with chatter due to the lack of radius rods to counteract the push from the torque tube. The 8BA era cars don't have that problem but can experience wear in the clutch control mechanism that may affect things a bit. A person can easily check the bellcrank and the rods for play or possibly a throw out fulcrum arm looseness.
My bet would be on the condition and concentricity of the flywheel and clutch plate fit. Another thing is play in the transmission input shaft. The pilot bearing and main input bearing have to show very little play. If the input shaft is moving around then it could cause problems during engagement. The torque dampening springs on the clutch plate also have to be in good condition with little play in the clutch plate hub. |
04-27-2021, 10:01 AM | #39 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Had bad chatter in my 47 ford.in 1st and reverse. If i road the the clutch a little i had no chatter. Replaced all the mounts,fort wayne clutch and machined the flywheel. I also installed new bearings in the rear end only because the rear was out and needed some seals. Only real problem i found was broken pins in the rear yoke. When done i could not make it chatter no matter how hard i tried. One year later it came back the same as before. i wonder if it happens to be something to do with the pins or yoke. As it happened over night and is not driven much i doubt if its the clutch. What would happen if both pins broke. Thanks
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04-28-2021, 06:01 AM | #40 | |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
260) 484-8505, Fort Wayne clutch & driveline,
Quote:
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04-28-2021, 06:08 PM | #41 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Chuck, How many times do we have to say it, "Call Fort Wayne Clutch". Thanks for posting their telephone number.
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04-30-2021, 08:57 AM | #42 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
FWIW,,,,
I've had flywheels resurfaced on a Blanchard grinder and Van Norman fly cutting machine, with no difference. On my 49 wagon, it uses a larger clutch. Had problems when I purchased the car, and had the trans / clutch out a few times. Replaced the motor mounts and transmission mount. Used new fasteners too. Resurfaced the flywheel, and checked for runout when I reinstalled. Used a stainless steel washer that fit over the flywheel bolt circle area. Used new ARP fasteners for the flywheel and the PP. Those removed were junk. Throw out bearing is another story, went through two of them, sad that some bearings are junk. Checked the spline shaft for any burrs. Align the disc carefully so it is centralized in the rotating assembly. Made 'transmission pins' from longer bolts with the heads cut off, so that I could slide the trans on evenly. Once installed, replaced one at a time with the correct fastener, and tightened them evenly. Check your driveshaft, replaced the U joints, and rebalanced the drive shaft. Used new fasteners and locking devices. As 48F1 mentioned, check all the linkages for any signs of wear. The 49 shaft that goes through the frame can be worn. Adjust for 1" to 1 1/2" of free play. I use a tape measure, with one end on the floor/firewall area. Good luck.
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05-03-2021, 06:40 PM | #43 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
i ordered a new clutch kit from fort wayne , ill let you know how it goes... had the flywheel surfaced again , do i need to adjust any on the pressure plate or can i just put it back togather? thanks again for the help and advice... ill let you know how it turns out
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05-03-2021, 07:30 PM | #44 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
I'd measure the relative height of the fingers just to make sure.
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05-05-2021, 12:20 PM | #45 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
i got the new kit today and the presher plate doesent have adjusting bolts at the throw out bearing like the other one had. does that mean just bolt it up and go with it?
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05-05-2021, 12:44 PM | #46 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
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05-16-2021, 05:40 PM | #47 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
that new clutch kit from fort wayne solved my problem . it works great now thanks again for the advice... tony
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05-17-2021, 11:56 AM | #48 |
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Re: 49 ford clutch chatter
Great news, glad to hear this! Ken
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