Champion 3xs or other plugs?

[History]

My engine had the 3xs plugs when I got it and I wanted to ask if that's what I should run it? I didn't realize they were so expensive. Should I put them away and use a more modern plug because of that? I noticed that the plugs were getting covered in black (sut) and read that a hotter plug could remedy the problem. What would you fellows recommend?

[rotorwrench]

We pay over 100 bucks a plug for fine wire aircraft plugs. Even the heavy electrode ones cost around 35 bucks a apiece but they don't last a fraction of the time a fine wire plug lasts.

If your engine is running rich, it will even fowl a hotter plug. If it's using much oil it will fowl easier. I'm not sure if a hotter plug is available for the 7/8" tpi type plugs. It's more likely than the Model T 1/2" npt plug though. I don't know if any of the modern one piece type plugs are any better but they seem to work OK.

[Werner]

Hi History,


I use modern 'Iridium' plugs from NGK. The cold running is VERY better, and the fuel consumption goes a little bit down. The lifetime is about 60.000 miles if you use non leaded fuel.

[wmws]

Here is the Champion numbers. I use the W16Y Runs very clean and not expensive.

Champion (hotter down to colder):

W95D
W89D
W16Y
W20
W18
W14
W10
W85N
W80N

[Conaway2]

WMS - where do theChampion3X plugs fall in the series you listed ?

Thanks - JIm

[Y-Blockhead]

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The 3x are about equal to the W-18 according to this info on Ford Garage. I'm running the W18's now, they seem to run better than the 3X with a 5.5 head (cheaper too!). The 3X seemed too hot for my setup.

Also the W-16-Y should be cooler then W-18 according to this info.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brum...kplugnotes.htm

[JD 1931]

I use champion W-18 for years, they work the best for me...

[Patrick L.]

I've been using Autolite 3077 for decades. But now they are very hard to find and 3076 which are readily available are a bit too cold. I should have bought more [ 3077 ] when I could have.

[Tinbasher]

Thanks Wmws. I've been looking for a listing like this. Would you mind if I added it to our Newsletter?

JP

[wmws]

That listing came from The Ford Garage web site as Y-Blockhead listed. There are other plugs shown on the website. I’m sure you can list it for your new letter. Maybe just mention the website.

[Patrick L.]

Will a W89D W95D really work in our monsters. It doesn't look as though it will.

[wmws]

I would think the W89D and W95D would be too hot.

[Kurt in NJ]

I used to play different spark plugs, would only put the 3X ones in for shows--- then about 30 years ago I left them in, got better fuel mileage and ran better, still using same ones, amortized over 30 years they are cheap

Most likely the original poster has a mixture problem, I have no problem burning the 3x white when I set mixture lean--- I did testing with emissions machine under load to know what gav setting gives good mixture on my car

[Purdy Swoft]

The heat range list in post number 4 is incorrect . The W16Y is not hotter than the W18 or the -W20 . The W16 Y is mostly TOO COLD for the model A and will run black . If you don't believe it , then go ahead and try the W16 Y and you will se what I mean .

The heat rangelist in post number 4 is larry brumfield BS !!! Vince is just backing up the BS from his buddy larry .

I only post this to save some from wasting money on spark plugs that are TOO COLD .

Most that have used W16Y spark plugs in their model A will know this .

[Marshall V. Daut]

To be fair and accurate, the essay written on Model A spark plugs by Larry Brumfield as linked by "Y-Blockhead" should be read in its entirety, not just selected passages lifted out of context or clarifying words dropped. The pertinent section that relates to what has been used against Larry's experience and recommendations reads:
"Champion recommends the W-18 to be the modern replacement for the 3X as their heat ranges are fairly close. Concerning the W16Y, according to Champion, the W16Y, being a projected nose plug, is hotter than the W18 or even a W20 at low speed but cooler at high speeds over 5500 RPM... which obviously will never apply to most Model A’ers.
However, most people report that the W16Y runs cooler than the W18 on a Model A at any speed. [I added the bold face to emphasize the critical statement in this discussion] I doubt very seriously though that Champion’s engineers were using a Model A engine, as these plugs will work in several different engines, and their results would no doubt be determined under controlled conditions where the air/fuel ratio, spark intensity, etc., would be near perfect which is not the case for most Model A's. So it's still best to use the following as a general guide but do your own heat range tests and reach your own conclusions and opinions when running any of these plugs in a Model A engine."

Larry and Purdy, then, are in agreement about the heat range of the W16 plug as being colder than W18. I'm not sure what all the vituperative language is all about when someone agrees with you.

Note also that Larry states in parentheses next to the W16 plug in his list: "For Model A engines it [the W16 plug] ought to be nearer to W14". So he is saying the W16 in practice is not hotter than W18. It's closer to W14, which is on the cold side.

How all of this translates to BS is beyond me. I must be missing something. Rather than being classified as "brumfield BS", I'd say Larry's assessments are more a case of experience talking than of selective editorializing.

Marshall

[wmws]

As stated in post #4 I use W16 Y and it runs very clean. I have never had to clean a spark plug in my A. That is all I know.

[henry's 31]

I use Champion 18. Fairly priced at parts store. My engine runs well with them. Save the 3X for car shows.

[Tinbasher]

Thanks wmws. I'll mention the site. JP

[Purdy Swoft]

I've been using Champion W eighteen for several years and they run clean , not so with W sixteen Y .

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The heat range list in post number 4 is incorrect . The W16Y is not hotter than the W18 or the -W20 . The W16 Y is mostly TOO COLD for the model A and will run black . If you don't believe it , then go ahead and try the W16 Y and you will se what I mean .

The heat rangelist in post number 4 is larry brumfield BS !!! Vince is just backing up the BS from his buddy larry .

I'm sorry but doesn't the article state that "W16Y (For Model A engines it ought to be nearer to W14).

The article also states "Concerning the W16Y, according to Champion, the W16Y, being a projected nose plug, is hotter than the W18."

"According to Champion!" I don't see any BS on the part of Larry or Vince.

[Purdy Swoft]

The W sixteen Y Spark plug is hotter at fifty five hundred RPM .

Fifty five hundred RPM doesn't apply to a stock or near stock model A engine

The model A engine produces maximum horse power at twenty two hundred RPM

Unless the engine is highly modified it will never reach fifty five hundred RPM .

I believe that the article stated that the Champion W sixteen Y spark plug was closer to W fourteen .

The Champion W fourteen is WAY TOO cold for the model A engine and would run black all of the time .

The article also states that the original Champion Three X is about the same heat range as the Champion W eighteen .

The projected tip on the Champion W sixteen Y caused me to buy two boxes of ten , W sixteen Y spark plugs

After nearly sixty years of working on my cars I do know that a projected tip means hotter heat range .

I did not know that the heat range of the W sixteen Y spark plug was determined at fifty five hundred RPM .

Just to make this easier to understand , the W sixteen Y spark plug is much colder at twenty two hundred RPM and is too cold for the model A !!!!!!!

A local parts house happened to have two boxes of ten , W sixteen spark plugs

Thinking that the W sixteen would be hotter I bought both boxes .

It didn't take very long to run through the two boxes of too cold spark plugs .

This SHOULD tell a person that the Champion W sixteen Y is just too cold and will run black . This has also been my experience .

[Benson]

I used W16Y for 20 years ... short story is:

In the 60's we lived 25 miles one way from town and I drove it 7 days a week at 55 MPH and around town then back home. Engine speed never got to much more than 2800.

45000 miles during this time ...

At highway speeds W16Y plugs worked great!


Then we moved to town with many short trips (5 to 10 miles or so), with stops in between and little highway.

W16Y Plugs started to foul out.

Installed W18s which work well.

[Purdy Swoft]

I also used the W sixteen Y spark plugs for many years .

They ran black most of the time .

At the time I didn't know that the advertised heat range of the W sixteen Y spark plug was determined at fifty five hundred RPM .

If I had driven the model A faster it may have run cleaner
eaner .

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

This SHOULD tell a person that the Champion W sixteen Y is just too cold and will run black . This has also been my experience .

I don't think anyone is arguing that point.

[1931 flamingo]

I ran the W18's for years with NO problems. FWIW
Paul in CT

[Shelbycsx]

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The 3x plugs with the flat top 3 are reproduction. Is there a reproduction 3x plug with the round 3? What year did they stop making the original 3x?

[F.M.]

Originally Posted by Shelbycsx

The 3x plugs with the flat top 3 are reproduction. Is there a reproduction 3x plug with the round 3? What year did they stop making the original 3x?

# 1 NO # 2 I think sometime in 1932. You find some round ones in some of the new bases.

[GerryAllen]

Folks, went to my local NAPA dealer and he suggested I try Auto Lite 3076. I looked at a cross reference chart and the 3076 spark plugs were comparable to the W18.
Any comments ............... please I am new to Model A's make this a teachable moment ie benefits of one verses the other
Gerry Birch Bay WA

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by GerryAllen

Folks, went to my local NAPA dealer and he suggested I try Auto Lite 3076. I looked at a cross reference chart and the 3076 spark plugs were comparable to the W18.
Any comments ............... please I am new to Model A's make this a teachable moment ie benefits of one verses the other
Gerry Birch Bay WA

Did you look at #8.

[GerryAllen]

Pat, please explain #8, is that an Auto Lite plug that would be more comparable to the W18 than the others?????

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Did not feel like rereading this 30 post string, so excuse me if this has previously been covered. The following was my expereience. I was running the 3076. For some reason that I have yet to figure out my truck seems to run rich and the 3076 would run black on the center insulator, especially around town. Switched to the Champion W18, now the center is tan with a little black flecks. The W18 seems to be a little hotter than the 3076. So what you need depends on your plug reads.


Plug reads, only use the center insulator for the reads, the rest of the plug typically will look black. However if the rest of the plug is wet, oily, of has a lot of black fluffy soot, you have an issue. Plug selection may not solve the issue. If you do a search here there is probably a lot of info on plug reads.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by GerryAllen

Pat, please explain #8, is that an Auto Lite plug that would be more comparable to the W18 than the others?????

Gerry, I think Patrick was referring to Post #8.

Patrick, I seen some Autolite 3076 plugs on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spark-Plug-...-/201694271952 if you are interested?

[GerryAllen]

Thank you read post #8 ;~))))) and the other regarding 3076 verses W18. Will try W18.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by GerryAllen

Thank you read post #8 ;~))))) and the other regarding 3076 verses W18. Will try W18.

I think thats a good choice.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Gerry, I think Patrick was referring to Post #8.

Patrick, I seen some Autolite 3076 plugs on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spark-Plug-...-/201694271952 if you are interested?

Thanks, but. 3076 are readily available. 3077, which I prefer, don't seem to be.

[37 Coupe]

I have four like new W-20 Champion spark plugs .Are they close to the Champion 3 X plugs in heat range and are they a good plug to use in a stock engine that is probably in need of a rebuild or at least new rings and a valve job.