The Ford Barn

tribouboys · 07-08-2017, 08:31 AM

Looking for Model A Ford engine rebuilder recommendations. Insert vs babbitt
I've looked at previous threads and can see some real horror stories regarding leaking blocks that were fixed with solder etc. On the flip side I do not want to pay 6K for a long block either. Thanks for your suggestion.

Rex_A_Lott · 07-08-2017, 09:09 AM

Putting your location in your profile would help you get better advice. It does not have to be down to the exact address, just a general area. There are several well respected builders posting here, and they may be a few hundred miles apart. Good luck!

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 07-08-2017, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

Putting your location in your profile would help you get better advice.

If I recall correctly, Bangor Maine area is his location. I don't think he would go wrong contacting J&M Machine however his comment about not wanting to invest $6k either. Generally speaking, from my shop that is on the high end of things which includes a run-in, but folks need to realize that to do the job correctly by a reputable shop is going to cost money. IMHO, the horror stories are usually first created by the hobbyist that is looking for a way to save some dollars. Give a reputable rebuilder the $$ to do it correctly, and you will be happy with the outcome.

Jim Brierley · 07-08-2017, 10:32 AM

Babbitt or inserts will work equally well, and are not too far apart on price. The quality of the work is most important.

Synchro909 · 07-08-2017, 07:19 PM

Quality is remembered well after the price is forgotten.
Do it right - do it once!
If you don't have the money to do it properly the first time, how ya gonna pay for it to be redone.
Do you smell what I'm cookin here?

WHN · 07-09-2017, 10:26 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Quality is remembered well after the price is forgotten.
Do it right - do it once!
If you don't have the money to do it properly the first time, how ya gonna pay for it to be redone.
Do you smell what I'm cookin here?

You can't say it better. Done right it will last your lifetime.

Boston Bruce · 07-09-2017, 09:56 PM

Good service, top quality and lowest price.

Pick two.

Mike V. Florida · 07-09-2017, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribouboys

Looking for Model A Ford engine rebuilder recommendations. Insert vs babbitt
I've looked at previous threads and can see some real horror stories regarding leaking blocks that were fixed with solder etc. On the flip side I do not want to pay 6K for a long block either. Thanks for your suggestion.

It would help if we knew where you were.

There is a thread on the top called, "Model A/AA Ford Websites...Can YOU add to the list?" it has recommendations on all sorts of Model A stuff.

BABBITT WORK
1. No known website: Bill Barlow (541) 389-2694 (Oregon) [email protected]
2. No known website: Steve's (Sturim) Antique Auto Repair (616) 538-0441 (Michigan)
3. No known website: Hercules Welding, Palmyra, New Jersey
4. No known website: A and I Engine, Souderton, Pennsylvania

ENGINE RESTORATION
1. www.schwalms.com Schwalm's/Ora Landis (Babbitted Bearings)(Pennsylvania)
2. www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com Antique Engine Rebuilding (Bearing Inserts)
(Illinois)
3. www.modelaparts.net Dennis Piranio's Antique Engine Rebuilding (Texas)
4. www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com James Roger's Dreamwerks Model A & B Ford
Engines (North Carolina)
5. www.modelaperformance.com Ron Kelley, R K Designs (Texas)
6. www.earlyford.com Early Ford, Engine Valves (South Carolina)
7. www.burlingtoncrankshaft.com Burlington Crankshafts (Connecticut)
8. www.specialtymotorcams.com Bill Stype Camshafts (Wisconsin)
9. www.godevilgarage.com Go Devil Garage (New York)
10. www.jandm-machine.com J & M Machine (Massachusetts)
11. www.rennerscorner.com Renner's Corner (Michigan)
12. www.mrmodelt.com Lilleker Antique Auto Restorations (Texas)
13. www.hotforhotfours.com Brierley Cams (California)
14. www.durableperformance.net Dave Gerold (Minnesota)
15. www.modelaengine.com Terry Burtz (California)
16. www.specialtymotorcams.com Specialty Motor Cams (Wisconsin)
17. No known website: Turlock Machine (California) 209-495-1689
18. www.taylorenginerebuilding.com Taylor Engines (California) 562-698-7231
19. www.modelamedic.com The Model "A" Medic (Kansas)
20. No known website: Steve's (Sturim) Antique Auto Repair 616-538-0441 (Michigan)

mike657894 · 07-09-2017, 11:32 PM

the insert bearing appear to be pretty cheap. what machining needs to be done for the use of those. And can any good machine shop do it or would you have to ship it to antique?

EDIT: i found the answer. but its greek to me :

The block and caps installed with no shims will require align boring. The housing bore in block is to be1.7705/1.7710. the finish 60-90 mico inches ra. The back of the rear main bearing block and cap portions are to be counter bored 2.250 OD and .125 deep. Now remove cap and counter bore block only on front of rear main 2.250 OD and 125 deep. Remove all caps and cut slots in block and caps for aligning lugs. Place bearings in block and caps check that aligning lugs and oil holes fit correctly some blocks mainly early 28 may require elongating oil holes in block. 80 percent alignment is good. Fit thrust washers in block and cap. Now file any portion that extends higher then parting line. File large bevel on both edges of front thrust washer 1 only (the contact face of crankshaft thrust) A square edge will cause oil to be wiped from crankshaft. On the back of the rear main it recommended to use 2 thrust washers and 1 of the washers should be doweled to block or cap to prevent rotating. The counter bore holds washers in place, crankshaft keeps them in position. The dowel keeps the rear from rotating and the cap keeps front from rotating. Thrust washers are not to be secured to block or cap as this can cause end loading and premature wear. I recommend a small amount of RTV sealer be used on out side edges of rear main cap to prevent leaks

second edit: antique has a partial job price list 500 to have block machined for inserts.

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/partial.html

mike657894 · 07-09-2017, 11:47 PM

these prices seem down right reasonable. http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/MODELA.html

tribouboys · 07-10-2017, 05:59 AM

Thanks Mike V. I have not seen the list before.
Maine is my location but clearly not afraid to the ship the core anywhere I need to but thinking I can find a builder on the East Coast.
That list helps a lot so I'll start looking at each vendor closer.

fuzes45 · 07-10-2017, 04:24 PM

Try Phil Grasso Glastonbury, Ct
860633-0552 as of 7/2017 has one rebuilt and run in on engine stand

Jim M · 07-10-2017, 04:48 PM

When I was a lad I saw a quote on the wall of the Vice President of Sales at American Tourister Luggage - at the time the best luggage money could buy. The sign said "People soon forget what they paid for something...... but they NEVER forget the quality" I have used than as the yardstick for the rest of my life!

07-08-2017, 08:31 AM	#1
tribouboys Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 111	Engine Rebuilding Looking for Model A Ford engine rebuilder recommendations. Insert vs babbitt I've looked at previous threads and can see some real horror stories regarding leaking blocks that were fixed with solder etc. On the flip side I do not want to pay 6K for a long block either. Thanks for your suggestion.

07-08-2017, 09:09 AM	#2
Rex_A_Lott Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Upstate South Carolina Posts: 794	Re: Engine Rebuilding Putting your location in your profile would help you get better advice. It does not have to be down to the exact address, just a general area. There are several well respected builders posting here, and they may be a few hundred miles apart. Good luck!

07-08-2017, 10:32 AM	#4
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,089	Re: Engine Rebuilding Babbitt or inserts will work equally well, and are not too far apart on price. The quality of the work is most important.

07-08-2017, 07:19 PM	#5
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Engine Rebuilding Quality is remembered well after the price is forgotten. Do it right - do it once! If you don't have the money to do it properly the first time, how ya gonna pay for it to be redone. Do you smell what I'm cookin here? __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

07-09-2017, 09:56 PM	#7
Boston Bruce Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maine and SC Posts: 205	Re: Engine Rebuilding Good service, top quality and lowest price. Pick two.

07-09-2017, 11:32 PM	#9
mike657894 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bay City Michigan Posts: 1,050	Re: Engine Rebuilding the insert bearing appear to be pretty cheap. what machining needs to be done for the use of those. And can any good machine shop do it or would you have to ship it to antique? EDIT: i found the answer. but its greek to me : The block and caps installed with no shims will require align boring. The housing bore in block is to be1.7705/1.7710. the finish 60-90 mico inches ra. The back of the rear main bearing block and cap portions are to be counter bored 2.250 OD and .125 deep. Now remove cap and counter bore block only on front of rear main 2.250 OD and 125 deep. Remove all caps and cut slots in block and caps for aligning lugs. Place bearings in block and caps check that aligning lugs and oil holes fit correctly some blocks mainly early 28 may require elongating oil holes in block. 80 percent alignment is good. Fit thrust washers in block and cap. Now file any portion that extends higher then parting line. File large bevel on both edges of front thrust washer 1 only (the contact face of crankshaft thrust) A square edge will cause oil to be wiped from crankshaft. On the back of the rear main it recommended to use 2 thrust washers and 1 of the washers should be doweled to block or cap to prevent rotating. The counter bore holds washers in place, crankshaft keeps them in position. The dowel keeps the rear from rotating and the cap keeps front from rotating. Thrust washers are not to be secured to block or cap as this can cause end loading and premature wear. I recommend a small amount of RTV sealer be used on out side edges of rear main cap to prevent leaks second edit: antique has a partial job price list 500 to have block machined for inserts. http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/partial.html Last edited by mike657894; 07-09-2017 at 11:37 PM.

07-09-2017, 11:47 PM	#10
mike657894 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bay City Michigan Posts: 1,050	Re: Engine Rebuilding these prices seem down right reasonable. http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/MODELA.html

07-10-2017, 05:59 AM	#11
tribouboys Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 111	Re: Engine Rebuilding Thanks Mike V. I have not seen the list before. Maine is my location but clearly not afraid to the ship the core anywhere I need to but thinking I can find a builder on the East Coast. That list helps a lot so I'll start looking at each vendor closer.

07-10-2017, 04:24 PM	#12
fuzes45 Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Corrupt-A -Cut Eastern,Ct Posts: 54	Re: Engine Rebuilding Try Phil Grasso Glastonbury, Ct 860633-0552 as of 7/2017 has one rebuilt and run in on engine stand

07-10-2017, 04:48 PM	#13
Jim M Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sebastian, FL Posts: 479	Re: Engine Rebuilding When I was a lad I saw a quote on the wall of the Vice President of Sales at American Tourister Luggage - at the time the best luggage money could buy. The sign said "People soon forget what they paid for something...... but they NEVER forget the quality" I have used than as the yardstick for the rest of my life!