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Old 03-22-2018, 11:45 AM   #21
Chris Haynes
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

If your car is registered by an incorrect number and it is stolen how do you report it? If it is recovered how do you prove it is yours? If you car is in a major wreck and you insurance company spots a number different than whats on your policy do you think they will cover it?
Take the time to expose the number and register it by it.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:56 AM   #22
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

I agree with Dan and Chris. If you use and independent verifier these people are working for you not against you like the DMV.

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Old 03-22-2018, 06:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

If the car is registered with a VIN, then take that VIN and engrave it somewhere on the frame or body. It is perfectly legal to do so and will help the next owner having to deal with a car without an attached VIN. All problems solved except the AA issue, that one you may need to just get over!
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

Find a local Model A restorer or hot rod shop and find out who they use to verify VIN numbers. They shoued under stand the engine number and frame number differences.

Normally California registers motor cycle by engine number and all other vehicles by frame number. A good Model A verifier can document the differences to DMV

I agree the DMV has gone to the IRS school of charm.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

My car title WA state is the engine#. That engine sat before I got it and when I cleaned to rebuild it had several bad cracks and was not worth rebuilding. During my recent body off effort I found the correct frame number and it was different too, so this had at least two engines.

I took a picture of my frame number and printed it, the "new" engine stamped so it now matches the frame number, and NO WAY in my lifetime is that body coming off again!

I am keeping the old block and will show all the documentation to WA highway patrol (required here to re-title) and hope for the best.

Good luck.

If necessary I will bring the old block for them to see as well. That should be good enough, but I have not done it yet.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

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A good friend had this problem many years ago, where the engine number did not match the California title. He was very worried about insurance, and he asked, and was told they needed to match. So he decided to pull the engine, and have it re-stamped to correspond to the title. While it was out, he had the engine refreshed. In the end, he was very relieved to have it done.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:12 PM   #27
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

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A good friend had this problem many years ago, where the engine number did not match the California title. He was very worried about insurance, and he asked, and was told they needed to match. So he decided to pull the engine, and have it re-stamped to correspond to the title. While it was out, he had the engine refreshed. In the end, he was very relieved to have it done.
I guess he didn't realize that it is a felony to alter or remove a vehicle serial number.
In CA it is section 10751 of the vehicle code.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:15 AM   #28
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

Had a clear Pioneer Title to my '28 fordor from MN, but when I went to register in AZ, they made me pull the body off the frame and could not find the frame number as was painted over when chassis repainted.(Big mistake as saw the number before restoration). Even with the title and engine number that matched the AZ Highway Patrol said as far as he was concerned it was a stolen vehicle as could not see the frame number and had to get a bonded title. I should have taken stamps and repaired the number on the frame. Make your frame number match the title you have.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:54 AM   #29
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

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Make your frame number match the title you have.
Once again this is illegal.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

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Once again this is illegal.
you're in Ca. just tell the DMV it's
a mexican car in the country illegally, they will give the car sanctuary and documentation.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:43 PM   #31
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

you're in Ca. just tell the DMV it's
a mexican car in the country illegally, they will give the car sanctuary and documentation.


NICE! thanks for the smile!
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:48 PM   #32
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

I'm wondering, do other cars of the Model A era (like the despised Chevrolets!) have better vehicle ID systems than just an engine number and an inaccessible frame number, numbers which, in any case, might not match because of an engine change? Or in the case of the frame number, be illegible due to corrosion?
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:58 PM   #33
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

JBill- I have a 31 chevy and it also uses the engine number. that was standard practice
before WW2.

However the Chevys had the vin tag on the pass side sill as you opened the door. In most cases, they were kicked off from entry into the car, within a few years.
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:57 AM   #34
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

Do not change the VIN!

My Victoria had a 1929 engine number on the registration when I bought the car. During the car's restoration, I found the original VIN stamped into the frame. I photographed the VIN on the frame and finished restoring the car. I also stamped the original VIN on the rebuilt engine in the car. The 1929 engine was sold.

When I tried to register the car in New York, the DMV gave me a case number and had me take the car to a local DMV investigator. The investigator wanted to take the car away for having an altered VIN which is against the law. The investigator also wanted me to take the body off so he could see the original VIN on the frame. He also wanted proof of where the 1929 engine went. The DMV did not get my car, the body did not come off, but it took me a year and a half to get it registered.

Today my Victoria is registered with a new VIN and a new engine number imposed by the DMV. Oh by the way, the DMV denied my use of year of manufacture plates because of the registration fiasco.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:52 AM   #35
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
I guess he didn't realize that it is a felony to alter or remove a vehicle serial number.
In CA it is section 10751 of the vehicle code.
You are giving incorrect information. The engine number is not the VIN. The engine number originally MATCHED the VIN but the frame number is the true VIN. You can legally restamp the engine, or stamp the VIN number on any surface of the car you want. Where illegalities come in is if you alter or remove the original stamped VIN. In the case of the model A , that IS the frame number. Engines are not titled, the car is.
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Old 03-24-2018, 02:33 PM   #36
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBill View Post
I'm wondering, do other cars of the Model A era (like the despised Chevrolets!) have better vehicle ID systems than just an engine number and an inaccessible frame number, numbers which, in any case, might not match because of an engine change? Or in the case of the frame number, be illegible due to corrosion?
A friend of mine had a '34 Chevy pickup with no visible numbers. He bought a new body tag with the number he wanted on it from the net. He attached this squeakily clean brand new tag on his rusty firewall and took it to DMV The verified the number without question.
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Old 03-24-2018, 02:37 PM   #37
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

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You are giving incorrect information. The engine number is not the VIN. The engine number originally MATCHED the VIN but the frame number is the true VIN. You can legally restamp the engine, or stamp the VIN number on any surface of the car you want. Where illegalities come in is if you alter or remove the original stamped VIN. In the case of the model A , that IS the frame number. Engines are not titled, the car is.

Let me be more specific. It is illegal to remove of alter ANY MANUFACTURERS IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.
I beg you to show me where any state allows you to remove, alter or replace a number.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum=10751.
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Old 03-24-2018, 05:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

The only reason for a law that says you can't change a number is related to identifying a stolen vehicle. But it is only one piece of evidence and it alone does not prove that the vehicle is stolen. If there is any prosecutor alive who would bring a case to court based on this one piece of evidence has to be crazy, crooked, or really hungry for a statistic.
In this case the car has been in the family for 45 YEARS and any theft before that would be beyond the statute of limitations for prosecution.
I would say the odds of you being arrested are beyond worry. A judge would throw the case out of court. Even in California.
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Old 03-24-2018, 05:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

I guess that I have been very lucky registering cars.

Never! Never, have I had anyone from DMV ask to see the car I was registering to check numbers.

I have always used at least the bill of sale or title, along with the sellers last registration, a photo copy of sellers drivers license. Never had anyone question anything. Including cars from both Connecticut and New York which are both no title states for cars the age of Model A’s.
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: Confirmed, VIN problem that has always bothered me. What would you do?

Neil, there are a couple of places you can have this taken care of that won't take 6 weeks. One of those places is in Hawaiian Gardens, Fleet Registration Services Corp.. 562-548-3500, the lady's name is Audrey Welch. Stone throw from you. I used a place called Quick Plates in Huntington Beach in the past. Quick Plates was a dream. The gal asked me what number do I want on the title. Ha!! It was for a pickup that had a mess of numbers I bought out of state. Both of the places I mentioned will show up at your house for a VIN inspection and get you going. No reason you won't be able to make it to the Pancake Breakfast.

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