More flathead questions.

[Ol' Ron]

I just recieved a set of 99?? rods from a friend for the 258 project. I was looking for 21a rods, but he didn't have any so sent me these. I never measured them. I will now. When the 91 rod was mentioned above, I realized that I could be wrong, sorry about that, I'll check today.

[Brian]

Licenced to kill, The earlier post by Graeme is correct; you are Canadian, as is your engine. Those really thick, lock in shells you describe as out of your engine are a Canadian only thing. As New Zealand Fords were sourced from Canada, these things are quite commonly found down under, however, the majority of posters on this thread, being from USA, haven't seen this stuff. Your crankpins will have double holes in them in order each bearing gets lubed; the American full floater cranks only had one hole per journal, which lubed the entire full floater. Your conrods have those notches from the factory, the American rods, on account of the full floater design, did not have any need for the notches.
Now, the good news is that you can use your crank and rods with either the original style lock in shells, or the regular USA full floaters. All journal sizes/ rod bores are the same. You cannot use your lock in shells and rods on a single hole journalled crank!

[Bored&Stroked]

Brian has it right - you have a Canadian version of a 59x series - with big thick ole' lock in bearing shells. I've never built one of these variants (with the lock-in shells). You may have a hard time finding replacement bearings - so you may need to go to either a later set of 49-53 rods with insert bearings (probably the best/easiest route) or go back to full-floaters . . . which do take some expertise to correctly size the shells for roundness. They absolutely need to "float" - if they do not, then the issues begin!

PS: You can buy a brand new set of 49-53 type rods from SoCal. While $270 may seem expensive, by the time you buy used rods and have them completely redone - you're usually out a similar amount of $$$. These rods use the inexpensive late/modern style bearings which are very inexpensive as compared to full-floaters.

https://www.socalsac.com/Stock-Rod-7...flat001020.htm

[Flathead]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

Initially, the plan was to drop the pan to clean it out, check the bearings while the pan was off and put back together. However, the goo in the bottom of the pan felt gritty and, pulling one rod cap found copper showing so it needs bearings. I don't want to take the chance of any grit being in the lifter valley or anywhere else so will be pulling the motor tomorrow. Once I get it out and on a stand (will have to make an adapter to mount it), I will be able to take it apart and get better measurements off of the crank. I'm not expecting any other issues but we will see. Thanks for the input so far guys. very much appreciated.

Some of the original Ford bearings were all copper color when new.

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

by the time you buy used rods and have them completely redone .........

What do you mean by "completely redone"??

[Hoop]

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"LB" engines with shell bearings were introduced at the beginning of the 1936 production year ... in Sept. 1935. Both "LB" and babbitt were made throughout the year.

There was/is no "mid-year" thing.

"The Early Ford V8 as Henry Built It," Francis/DeAngelis, page 21.

[rotorwrench]

The Canadian C69A series engine was set up with shells on the rods. They have unique bearings that are thicker the 8BA types and I've heard that they are getting harder to source. A person can change the crank and rods over to 8BA types so at least the bearings are abundant. The C69 usually has the number on the back bell housing part of the block. These were post war engines that came on line somewhere in 1946. Inspect the oil porting on the back of the engine carefully. Some Canadian engines still had a pressure flow oil filtering system that was carried over from WWII. It has to be connected properly prior to use or the engine may not have oil pressure. Some applications even used an oil cooler set up.

[Ol' Ron]

Well I have to admit that my eyesight is getting worse or my memory is fading. Maybe both. Yes the 99 rods are for the large 2.138 crank journals, and are an early version of the 29A rods. That makes the 91a rod the small one. I"ll have to have my post edited by my dog "Stroker"

[Licensed to kill]

Pulled the engine and am in the process of disassembling, didn't notice the number cast in the block in front of the head before "C59A". A search on the forum confirms that this is a canadian block (which was already established) but nothing about years of production.

[flatjack9]

1946 to 1948 model years. It was actually introduced in 1945, thus the 59A.

[rotorwrench]

Canadian production was different then US production on engines, engine components, and a few other drive line components. The C59 engine should be about the same as the US 59 counterpart. The C69 had the updated crankshaft and replaced the C59 as the stocks were depleted. There has been a lot of water under the bridge though. The crank & rods could have been changed out at some previous overhaul. Large scale overhaul shops mixed & matched all the time.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

What do you mean by "completely redone"??

Used rods need to be checked for straightness, have the pin bushings checked and potentially replaced, have the big-ends checked and maybe the caps machined and resized, honed, etc.. Shot-peened maybe . . . All in all, can easily be a couple hundred $$$. And - if they are full-floater rods, then creating a mirrored finish is critical - and most don't get this, nor know how to even do it.

[Ol' Ron]

Also the wrist pin bushing are swagged into the rod before honing. Very few shops have the equipment to do this. I don't change the wrist pin bushing unless it really bad.

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Used rods need to be checked for straightness, have the pin bushings checked and potentially replaced, have the big-ends checked and maybe the caps machined and resized, honed, etc.. Shot-peened maybe . . . All in all, can easily be a couple hundred $$$. And - if they are full-floater rods, then creating a mirrored finish is critical - and most don't get this, nor know how to even do it.

I picked up some parts from a buddy yesterday. 2 full sets of rods and a set of valves/guides/springs. The reason for the two sets of rods is so I can check them (visually) and discard any that appear suspect and the reason for the valves is that I was having issues getting the guides out and took them in case I needed to cut some valves off the get the guides out. I did manage to get all the valves out but damaged several guides in the process (broke the shoulders off trying to pry them down to remove the upper clip). I'm doing my best to gain traction on this slippery slope one finds themselves on when you open up an engine. If this engine was for a pickup or car, I would just replace all of the valves/guides, get new rods and consider a bore. However, this engine is going in a 1 1/2 ton tow truck and, while I will drive it, it won't see 1000 miles in it's lifetime so getting too carried away just doesn't make any sense (to me). It does take some serious willpower though as, like I say, it's a slippery slope with "while I'm in here, I should.....". I have the block stripped (with the exception of the cam bearings that I'll take out today) and will be taking it in to be hot tanked next week (it is disgustingly grungy). Then, the plan is (so far) rings, bearings (rod, mains and cam) and gaskets, paint it and put it back in. also, I will be putting each valve in the lathe and running it to check for straightness. They all look good and the seats appear good but a couple of them got fired across the shop getting them out before my son came over and acted as "catcher".

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

I picked up some parts from a buddy yesterday. 2 full sets of rods and a set of valves/guides/springs. The reason for the two sets of rods is so I can check them (visually) and discard any that appear suspect and the reason for the valves is that I was having issues getting the guides out and took them in case I needed to cut some valves off the get the guides out. I did manage to get all the valves out but damaged several guides in the process (broke the shoulders off trying to pry them down to remove the upper clip). I'm doing my best to gain traction on this slippery slope one finds themselves on when you open up an engine. If this engine was for a pickup or car, I would just replace all of the valves/guides, get new rods and consider a bore. However, this engine is going in a 1 1/2 ton tow truck and, while I will drive it, it won't see 1000 miles in it's lifetime so getting too carried away just doesn't make any sense (to me). It does take some serious willpower though as, like I say, it's a slippery slope with "while I'm in here, I should.....". I have the block stripped (with the exception of the cam bearings that I'll take out today) and will be taking it in to be hot tanked next week (it is disgustingly grungy). Then, the plan is (so far) rings, bearings (rod, mains and cam) and gaskets, paint it and put it back in.

You might want to seriously consider some bronze-lined guides along with some stainless valves? Now would be the time!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. You will NEVER experience any "hung" valves during longer periods of storage. At some point this will happen w/o the liners, just a matter of when!

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

You might want to seriously consider some bronze-lined guides along with some stainless valves? Now would be the time!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. You will NEVER experience any "hung" valves during longer periods of storage. At some point this will happen w/o the liners, just a matter of when!

It had been parked for at least 7-8 years and did have one sticky valve. Solid advice but in an effort to gain the aforementioned "traction", I will run MMO in the fuel (as others do) and make a point of running/diving it occasionally.

[GEOFFNZ]

I go with Graeme. Some Canadian engines had insert bearings.They were very thick shells and are now hard to find.The rods were big bore and I think would take floaters as compared to the smaller bore 8BA rods. Both cranks the same size.Cheers, Geoff