Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2015, 08:59 PM   #1
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Babbitus fragmentus!

The all original 29 Fordor was running super sweet. On the way home from the club breakfast last weekend, it suddenly developed a vibration that got worse very quickly (it normally is as smooth as a 2015 Ford). I shut it down and pulled over. Came home on the metallic magic carpet. Pulled the motor today. See attached.

Center main babbit is completely gone from the cap. Everything else looks perfect inside. No damage to crank, miraculously. Other mains look perfect.

Not sure what caused this in a factory stock motor. It was sure sudden.

The oil looks dirtier in the photo than it actually is.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20150823_161259365.jpg (68.2 KB, 479 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20150823_160913624.jpg (70.9 KB, 493 views)

Last edited by P.S.; 08-25-2015 at 04:11 PM.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2015, 09:32 PM   #2
DJ S
Senior Member
 
DJ S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southwick, MA
Posts: 504
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Well I mean, it is 86 years old...
DJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-23-2015, 09:48 PM   #3
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,842
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

At what speed do you travel? I shudder at the clams by many on this site that they can cruise all day at 55 mph in their stock Model A. This is what happens when you flog the engine like that. I'm not saying that is what you do/did but the middle main is notoriously weak and won't take that sort of abuse.
A Model A engine will go for a long time if driven within its limits. Too many these days expect modern car performance/life out of a nearly 90 years old design.
IMHO, keep a model A under about 42 mph (with 3.78 diff ratio) or risk walking home. I know I'm going to get some telling me I'm wrong but I have seen it happen too many times to listen to fools.
__________________
I belong to a procrastinator's club but we haven't met yet.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2015, 10:14 PM   #4
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

I didn't post this to complain, just to show what can happen, and how quickly it can happen.

I was going about 45 mph, as usual. This is an original car (original paint, interior, etc.) and mostly a preservation car, not a touring car. I have NEVER driven this car 55 mph, it's a 45 mph cruiser all day though. I never lugged it, always kept clean oil in it, you name it.

With the disclaimer out of the way now, perhaps we can proceed.

Synchro- I mostly agree with you, but that sure wasn't the case here. I think about 50 mph seems to be the consensus for a stock Model A.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2015, 10:39 PM   #5
H. L. Chauvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,179
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Hi P.S.,

Sad to hear; but thanks for taking time to share with photos.

Roughly how many miles were on your engine since last center main bearing adjustment?
H. L. Chauvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2015, 10:49 PM   #6
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Hi H.L.

I don't know. However, the motor was so smooth, quiet (couldn't tell it was running when at idle) and was so strong, I never checked them myself. Now that the motor is out and on the stand, I can certainly check.

I have only driven this Model A about 300 miles. Like I said, it is a preservation car. Just never got around to dropping the pan and checking the clearances. Based on how it ran, it wasn't a priority.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2015, 11:15 PM   #7
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,842
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S. View Post
I didn't post this to complain, just to show what can happen, and how quickly it can happen.

I was going about 45 mph, as usual. This is an original car (original paint, interior, etc.) and mostly a preservation car, not a touring car. I have NEVER driven this car 55 mph, it's a 45 mph cruiser all day though. I never lugged it, always kept clean oil in it, you name it.

With the disclaimer out of the way now, perhaps we can proceed.

Synchro- I mostly agree with you, but that sure wasn't the case here. I think about 50 mph seems to be the consensus for a stock Model A.
PS,
If this is a preservation car, the bearings are probably quite old. I'm told they deteriorate just standing there so they won't have been at their best. Yes, failure can go from bad to downright ugly very quickly. As soon as the clearance gets too wide, crankshaft starts to pound the metal in the bearing "squishing" it (don't you love these technical terms?) out of the cap. The clearance get even wider and it's all down hill from there.
You might consider inserts as replacements and if you go that way, I'd recommend an oil filter be fitted.
Good luck with it whatever you do.
__________________
I belong to a procrastinator's club but we haven't met yet.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 12:47 AM   #8
H. L. Chauvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,179
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Hi P.S.,

Thanks for explanation & details in addition to photos.

Great commendable wisdom in choosing to come home on the metallic magic carpet; hence, you stopped in time and saved the crankshaft.

I knew many in the past who would have come home at 45 m.p.h. sounding like a noisy Blacksmith's shop located immediately adjacent to a church with open windows ....... they would have had a whipping crankshaft beating out the front & rear Babbitt like a 40 H. P. gas powered Roto-Rooter.

Please let us what else you may find.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 08-24-2015 at 12:49 AM. Reason: typo
H. L. Chauvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 10:20 AM   #9
hardtimes
Senior Member
 
hardtimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 5,777
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Hey P.S..
Bummer , indeed !
I've often wondered how long original poured Henry Ford Babbitt would last in an engine that is driven regularly ? And, I've asked here priorly about what Synchro mentioned, i.e.- does poured Babbitt degrade/deterioriate over time, just because of AGE , whether used or not ?
The 'silver' lining' here, IMO, is that you live near a real good engine guy (Joe) in Turlock !
hardtimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 10:37 AM   #10
TinCup
Senior Member
 
TinCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok.
Posts: 1,957
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Yup seen that before. Had a similar experience with my car. Front and rear main looked great but middle main was shot.
__________________
Sooner Model A Club of Oklahoma
TinCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 10:50 AM   #11
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
does poured Babbitt degrade/deteriorate over time, just because of AGE , whether used or not ?
The babbitt thrust washers in Model T rear ends deteriorate w/age. I don't know it they used the same formula babbitt in the thrust washers as is used in engines or not. Anyone know?
__________________
Talk slow, think fast.
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 11:07 AM   #12
PC/SR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1,119
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Try a presurized center main. Dennis Pirano in Tx has a kit, cheap and easy to install. Its a simple installation.
PC/SR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 11:07 AM   #13
mcorrell
Senior Member
 
mcorrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canotn, NC
Posts: 141
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

I've pulled apart many tractors that sat parked for years or decades and the babbit has come off the rods/mains in chunks when disassembled. These were engines that were parked for reasons other than oil or bearing issues and had oil in them. It seems the worst were the ones sitting the longest, like the ancient oil weakend the babbit.
__________________
1929 (early) Model A Special Coupe - restored to original

1964 Buick Wildcat convertible
mcorrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 01:38 PM   #14
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,935
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
Hey P.S..
Bummer , indeed !
I've often wondered how long original poured Henry Ford Babbitt would last in an engine that is driven regularly ? And, I've asked here priorly about what Synchro mentioned, i.e.- does poured Babbitt degrade/deterioriate over time, just because of AGE , whether used or not ?
The 'silver' lining' here, IMO, is that you live near a real good engine guy (Joe) in Turlock !
I had a 1930 Town sedan It had 85,000 miles on a original engine that had never been rebuilt. Standard bore. I adjusted the bearings and ground the valves. Ran great.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 04:29 PM   #15
Ron/IA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Amana IA
Posts: 527
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

I haven't seen it mentioned (maybe I missed it), but there might have been oil starvation at the center bearing.

Have you checked the oil passage for this bearing from the valve galley?
__________________
Ron/IA
1929 Fordor Steelback

Hawk A Model A Ford Club
http://hawkamodelaclub.org/
Ron/IA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 04:43 PM   #16
Chris in CT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 272
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Hi PS, Sorry to hear about your engine. As Synchro909 indicated above, and what is not widely known or appreciated, is the fact that certain alloys crystallize and/or "break down" over time. White metal, pot metal, brass, and no doubt a catalogue of other alloys or "mixes" can expand, deform, crystallize, and disintegrate and otherwise become useless after a certain period of years.
I am going to bet here that you did nothing to "deserve" what happened to your center main, and that what happened to that bearing is probably going to happen very soon to your other bearings as well. Since you have an "all original" Model A, find yourself someone who can do a 100% authentic poured babbitt job on your motor, and keep it as original as possible. Good Luck!
Chris in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 07:14 PM   #17
harleytoprock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 438
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

P.S., Sorry for your misfortune. Did the motor make any noise before or after this happened?
harleytoprock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 07:14 PM   #18
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 2,668
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

And don't have the crankshaft reground unless absolutely necessary! They'll mess it up most likely.
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 09:13 PM   #19
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Hardtimes- There is just over 68K on the odometer. However, after tearing the engine down fully, my expert friend Bob and I have come to the conclusion that someone has worked on this motor, it is not Henry Ford original. So, I don't know if the babbit is original or not.

PC- Good suggestion. We are going to go inserts and take your suggestion.

Ron- That does not appear to be the case. The babbit in the block still looks OK, but the babbit in the cap is just gone.

Chris- Please see above. Not exactly Henry Ford original as previously lead to believe. It has adjustable lifters in it- dead giveaway. However, it still has the Ford script valves. Surprisingly, no detectable wear to the cylinder walls, no ridge at the top.

Harley- Not really. It just started to vibrate. It didn't make any noise until just before I shut it down. The noise was a vibration type rattle. Not very loud.

40- I know what you mean.

So, after tearing it down, my expert friend Bob started assembling parts so we can go with full inserts. He thinks he will have it put together by the weekend. No big hurry or anything, just him working at his pace.

Honestly, I like the idea of going with insert bearings. Turlock Machine built the motor in my Tudor with full inserts, and it's a runner!
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 09:42 PM   #20
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,165
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

The best thing you can do for the life of the main bearings is use a COUNTERWEIGHTED crankshaft.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 10:18 PM   #21
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,842
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
The best thing you can do for the life of the main bearings is use a COUNTERWEIGHTED crankshaft.
I'll second and third that. Counterweights take a lot of the load off the main bearings and make the motor run smoother. I'm already planning my next engine and counter weights WILL be done. I will not use the weld on type, rather they will be shrunk onto the crank shaft flange and bolted for extra security. After that, I will be putting an extra weight on the side of the first one, nearly doubling the amount of weight. With that crank shaft running on inserts, I expect many tens of thousands of miles out of the bottom end. Naturally, lots of weight will have to come off the flywheel to compensate.
__________________
I belong to a procrastinator's club but we haven't met yet.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 10:43 PM   #22
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,165
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Are you using Dan Price counterweights? I'd be careful about adding more weight because you can go too far the other way also. Ideally you want the weight on one side of the crankshaft at each point along the length to be the same as the weight directly opposite it. This isn't possible, but can be greatly improved on over the original Model A crankshaft.

The weight of the crankshaft and flywheel isn't any magic number, and the flywheel doesn't have to be lightened by 12 pounds if 12 pounds is added to the crankshaft. Also the flywheel effect will change depending on how far from center the weight is added and subtracted.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-25-2015, 02:19 AM   #23
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,842
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
Are you using Dan Price counterweights? I'd be careful about adding more weight because you can go too far the other way also. Ideally you want the weight on one side of the crankshaft at each point along the length to be the same as the weight directly opposite it. This isn't possible, but can be greatly improved on over the original Model A crankshaft.

The weight of the crankshaft and flywheel isn't any magic number, and the flywheel doesn't have to be lightened by 12 pounds if 12 pounds is added to the crankshaft. Also the flywheel effect will change depending on how far from center the weight is added and subtracted.
Tom. Who is Dan Price? I am not familiar with him or his counter weights. I intend making my own. It's easy to have them profile cut and bore the centres of them.
I have read on this forum that the ordinary weld on weights contribute about 40% of the ideal amount of weight for counter weights. By nearly doubling that, I figure I can get to about 70-75 % of ideal. Much closer. Can anybody confirm or otherwise this 40% figure??
I understand that 12 lb added to the crank is not the same as 12lb removed at the outer edge of the flywheel. All I want to do is keep the rotating momentum somewhere within reason.
__________________
I belong to a procrastinator's club but we haven't met yet.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 04:59 AM   #24
colin1928
Senior Member
 
colin1928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Australa Melbourne
Posts: 878
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
The best thing you can do for the life of the main bearings is use a COUNTERWEIGHTED crankshaft.
Tom IMO this the 2nd best thing for main bearings
I believe the No1 force on centre main bearings is the heavy flywheel followed by flex and harmonics
No1 lighten flywheel
No2 counterweight crankshaft
No3 balance everything
colin1928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 03:56 PM   #25
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Chris / Ron- Here is a shot of the crank at the center bearing with the cap off and the rear. The front cap isn't off yet. I peeled the shims off since it looks like a total do-over anyway. Zero damage to the crank!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20150825_110518950.jpg (66.1 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20150825_110448894.jpg (65.9 KB, 105 views)
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 04:33 PM   #26
TinCup
Senior Member
 
TinCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok.
Posts: 1,957
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

I have been running a center main taken from another car for over 5k miles. Just pulled the cap along with the front and the rear and all is good. Pulled a shim out of the center and had good wear front to back. It is just a interim solution until I can afford the full job.
__________________
Sooner Model A Club of Oklahoma
TinCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 06:41 PM   #27
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,842
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S. View Post
Chris / Ron- Here is a shot of the crank at the center bearing with the cap off and the rear. The front cap isn't off yet. I peeled the shims off since it looks like a total do-over anyway. Zero damage to the crank!
PS, You certainly did the right thing stopping the engine as soon as you heard it complaining. Well done. You no doubt saved yourself lots of $$$
__________________
I belong to a procrastinator's club but we haven't met yet.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 07:08 PM   #28
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 4,473
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

One of the advantages to having Babbitt is that most likely there is no crankshaft damage from such a babbitt failure if you don't try to drive it more than a few miles after the failure----with inserts many times by the time you hear it there is crankshaft damage because the babbitt layer is thin and as soon as the shaft runs on the steel the damage is quick

From what I can see in your picture it doesn't look like there are oil wells at the parting line ---this if it is so would indicate non original babbitt
Kurt in NJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 07:13 PM   #29
Jeff/Illinois
Senior Member
 
Jeff/Illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,820
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

This best sums up all the talk concerning Model A Ford speeds, 40MPH--50MPH--- whatever you drive in relation to engine life.............


https://youtu.be/_VrFV5r8cs0
Jeff/Illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 11:56 PM   #30
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 1,644
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
One of the advantages to having Babbitt is that most likely there is no crankshaft damage from such a babbitt failure if you don't try to drive it more than a few miles after the failure----with inserts many times by the time you hear it there is crankshaft damage because the babbitt layer is thin and as soon as the shaft runs on the steel the damage is quick

From what I can see in your picture it doesn't look like there are oil wells at the parting line ---this if it is so would indicate non original babbitt
I've heard this, and even said it, but I drove a Aerostar 25,000 with a bad rod , and my GMC van 20,000. So I don't know. I guess the actual Babbitt wasn't worn thru?
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 09:37 AM   #31
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

FWIW, both the Aerostar and the GMC have pressure lubrication.
__________________
Talk slow, think fast.
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 11:07 AM   #32
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
From what I can see in your picture it doesn't look like there are oil wells at the parting line ---this if it is so would indicate non original babbitt

Correct!

Definitely not original babbitt. The further we tear this motor down, the more obvious it is that it has been redone in its past. The original owner is deceased, so we cannot consult him. I do have paperwork for the car dating back to WW2, but nothing before then. Nothing in the paperwork about any engine work.

Owner #2 is my friend who is an absolute expert and is taking the lead on this project. I bought the car from him in December and became owner #3.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 03:11 AM   #33
Gerald1961
Member
 
Gerald1961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 53
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

i recently had to go by magic metal carpet due to lost rod babbit, only on cylinder1. Any other babbitt is fine, crankshaft seems also not to be injured. I' m now not shure if i should change to modern rods with insert bearings or to rebabbit rod nr.1. Who can tell about his experiencen with inserted bearings? Will i achieve the same durability as with babbits? My engine is rebuilt 6000 mls and ca. 15 yrs ago. Please help.....thx in advance
Gerald1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 03:39 AM   #34
jfreddie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: anchorage, alaska
Posts: 117
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

If only the cap is bad you could get a rebabbitted cap from Bill Barlow in Bend, OR.

I've used his caps in 5 A's here in Alaska where we don't have any babbitters.

His workmanship is first rate and his prices at $50 ea are very affordable.

I like sticking with babbitt for the reason you mentioned...the babbitt failed and didn't tear up your crank.

When an insert fails, your crank will be affected and likely need grinding.

I certainly agree that counterweighting is a big help to minimize the center main wear.

Good luck.
jfreddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 04:01 AM   #35
jfreddie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: anchorage, alaska
Posts: 117
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

About the rods...depends on how much $ you want to invest.

If only one rod is affected, the cheapest way is order a rebabbitted rod from Bert's.

They're the only co. that will send you a rod without a core...you can send it back later...for about $50.

If you go insert, you'll have to get a set to keep balanced. They're very nice quality and fit is quite good, but it should be for $500.

If you go inserts, make sure your crank journals are in very good shape as the bearing material can be scuffed or scored and are not forgiving like babbitt. They're harder and may wear the journal if there's any imperfections. They work best on a fresh crank regrind.

Good luck.
jfreddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 05:19 AM   #36
Gerald1961
Member
 
Gerald1961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 53
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Hi jfreddie!

Thank you for your quick answer!
My crankshaft is counterweighted and I want to have it regrinded definitvely. You are just expressing my opinion about inserts.

I am located in germany where I found at least 5 companies being able to rebabbitt..but there is no way to estimate the quality. Also they give me strongly varying costs, but anyway much much more than 50$...Could you please p.m. me the email adress or website from bert´s ? That would be very kind from you!

BR

Gerald from Germany
Gerald1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 08:14 AM   #37
P.S.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

UPDATE

Expert friend Bob did a motor rebuild with full inserts and the motor is installed. Have about 15 miles on the motor now, and its a champ!

I have a slow oil drip only while the motor is running. Drip appears to be coming from the intersection of the front and side timing gear covers at the top. Should be easy to fix!

As for the question about inserts.... I have insert bearings in the motors of both Model As now. Absolutely thrilled so far. Especially like the idea of no shims or periodic adjustments necessary. The bottom end is just like a modern engine now. One less thing to worry about.
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 08:30 AM   #38
mshmodela
Senior Member
 
mshmodela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,750
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Sorry to read of your babbit failure.... Makes me think whenever I have my engine rebuilt. I'll have inserts put in....
__________________
-Mike

Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy

I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A.

Cleveland, Ohio
mshmodela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 08:56 AM   #39
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

inserts here
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 09:22 AM   #40
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 3,704
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin View Post
Roughly how many miles were on your engine since last center main bearing adjustment?
Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1¢ worth.
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 11:24 AM   #41
DJ S
Senior Member
 
DJ S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southwick, MA
Posts: 504
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?
That's a good question... I have no idea. 20,000 miles? That's just a guess...
DJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 12:00 PM   #42
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,165
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?
It would depend on how fast you run the engine, how often you change the oil, and whether or not you have a counterweighted crank.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-05-2015, 12:44 PM   #43
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,935
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?
It will let you know when it is time. There is no right answer to your question on how long. It depends on a lot of things. How good was the babbit job, how fast do you drive, was it adjusted right in the first place, do you lug it on the hills, do you use the spark lever correctly and so on.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 12:51 PM   #44
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,935
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

I had a 1930 Townsedan that had 85,000 miles on it when I adjusted the mains and rods and ground the valves for the first time.It was a original car with the original engine. I might say it was real smooth also. Also no sludge in the engine.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2015, 02:20 PM   #45
TDO
Senior Member
 
TDO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Enterprise, WV.
Posts: 459
Default Re: Go ahead and give this thread a one-star rating. Babbitus fragmentus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC/SR View Post
Try a presurized center main. Dennis Pirano in Tx has a kit, cheap and easy to install. Its a simple installation.
How do you contact Dennis Pirano in TX. ?
TDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2015, 11:44 PM   #46
PC/SR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1,119
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Here is the link to his website. He used to list parts, but I guess you have to call him now. http://www.perfenginc.com/parts.htm/partsdept.htm
PC/SR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2015, 04:11 PM   #47
updraught
Senior Member
 
updraught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Seems to take some machining:


http://www.modelaparts.net/special.h...entermain.html
updraught is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2015, 10:44 PM   #48
PC/SR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1,119
Default Re: Babbitus fragmentus!

Does not require any machining. You need to drill and tap the center main cap, and the block for the fittings, with a drill into the oil passage. Its an easy job.
PC/SR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.