stainless sleeves in wheel cylinders

[Alaska Jim]

Hello everyone. While this question is not late V8 specific, I feel that it could apply , so I will pose the following question Yesterday, while bleeding the front brakes ( 1940 ford ) on a '29 Roadster ( customer car ) we were "pumping " up the pedal to bleed the brakes, and after getting some pedal, pumped the pedal to bleed once more to verify there was no more air when suddenly there was a pop noise, and the pedal went to the floor, brake fluid all over the floor. found the wheel to be locked up. ( shoes in a bind and applied tight against the drum ). finally got the thing apart, and at first thought the front piston had some how come out of the wheel cylinder. Then we suddenly realized that the stainless sleeve in the wheel cyl. had come loose and blew out the end of the wheel cyl.. I was obvious that the sleeve had not been pinned , and/ or did not have enough press to keep it in place. we now do not trust the cylinder on the other side, and are going to replace both of them. so has this ever happened to anyone else? we are just glad it happened in the shop, and not on the road. we would like to hear others experiences, and/or opinions. Thanks,--- Jim

[paul2748]

I have hard that some cylinders that have been sleeved leaked around the sleeve. Never heard of one popping out though.

[Daddio]

I was considering sleeving my cylinders ... I thought that would be THE answer ... now I'm glad I held off.

I've gotten into the ritual of bleeding both cars every spring, just to slow down the number of leaky wheel cylinders due to corrosion I was getting.

I've been using a hand vacuum pump for the past number of years, but that takes alot of hand strength (for an old guy), so I just recently invested in a compressed air brake bleeder. It pulls 20 inches, so it should work well on the cars ... we'll see.

[wellcraft17]

I’ve used silicone brake fluid in my 56 f100 since 1982 and never had a problem, I also have it in my 54 willys, no problems. Silicone won’t attract moisture thus no rust/sludge build up.

[KULTULZ]

If sleeving is done properly, there is no problem.

Years ago ... ... when I was introduced to European cars, the manufacturers would recommend yearly fluid replacement. If kept up, there would be little chance of corrosion in any part of the system.

[flatrod]

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Pic of said cyl

[rotorwrench]

If the sleeve is properly sized both inside and out, there should be no problem. If it is not a tight fit on the outer surface, it should be pinned. If it is not the correct size on the inner bore, there is a chance that the pistons can get stuck or gall the sleeve. The types of cylinder with two different size bores (like Ford used for a time) would be more susceptible to being pushed out hydraulically if a piston ever stuck in the bore or if the sleeve was loose. Stainless steel is a good material for this but has to be properly fabricated and fitted to be trouble free.

A lot of folks think that using Dot 5 will stop corrosion. It doesn't, it only slows it down. Brake fluid of any type doesn't like to sit for long periods. It needs to be used a lot and changed out now and then to remain trouble free.

If a person draws all the fluid out of the reservoir and refills it with fresh fluid. Brake line bleeding will remove the rest of the old gunk. If you bottom bleed, just remove the fluid and bleed up to fill the reservoir then draw out the gunk and refill with fresh fluid. Most folks just never get a round tuit. Those round tuits are hard to find.

[Ole Don]

If I owned those cylinders, I would remove the sleeves and JB Weld them back in place. Best of both worlds. I recently had a brake specialist tell me to bleed every car I own every two years with DOT 4. Most cars with a master cylinder on the fire wall will bleed themselves one wheel at a time given enough time.

[alt63bird]

Must be remembered that the style of cylinder used in Early V-8 cars '39-'48 are a stepped cylinder, with one end a smaller bore than the other. Ergo, two sleeves in cylinder being fed from one port with an internal joint between the dissimilar-sized bores would allow for fluid to leak past and push out one or both of the liners. Later cars use a single-bore cylinder which should make this kind of issue non-existant.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by alt63bird

Must be remembered that the style of cylinder used in Early V-8 cars '39-'48 are a stepped cylinder, with one end a smaller bore than the other. Ergo, two sleeves in cylinder being fed from one port with an internal joint between the dissimilar-sized bores would allow for fluid to leak past and push out one or both of the liners. Later cars use a single-bore cylinder which should make this kind of issue non-existant.

... hmmpf ...

I have no knowledge of pre-1955 cars so this is an awakening. So the OEM wheel cylinder had two bore sizes, I a$$-u-me for balanced braking. So when one is sleeved, instead of machining the replacement sleeve with the two original size bores (step boring), the re-builder uses two separately sized sleeves together pressed in from either end,

That explains it.

THANX! for the education ...

[alt63bird]

Kultulz - Helps to have my toes in the waters of '40s-'50s-'60s Fords with a '40, '55 Victoria and a few '63 T-birds in the barn.