Casting New Model A Blocks

[hefty lefty]

Pretty interesting:



http://www.modelaengine.com/february-2013.html

[Mike V. Florida]

There have been several threads about this. Many are waiting for this to happen.

[John LaVoy]

I talked to Terry about a month ago, he indicated progress was being made at the foundry and was expecting a usable casting soon.

[H. L. Chauvin]

So many of us today think we are so much smarter & further advanced with computers, cell phones, etc. -- a task like vintage block casting can make an intelligent person appreciate our ancestors -- this block in the above photo is indeed a work of truly refined art.

Hats off to Terry! Much appreciated.

[hefty lefty]

I'm wondering if a big part of the problem they are having with flow and porosity is the iron they are pouring. Ford was famous for superior metallurgy and the old Ford blocks were much sought after by foundries for smelting to make intricate castings.

He is using a Meehanite...that may be great from a wear standpoint but not particularly good at filling out the mold.

I do not want to criticise this great effort in any way but using a gray iron and wet liners for bore properties and longer life might be a big win. Even if to keep the bore centers and provide clearance he had to go to a smaller bore. Stock pistons are not going to be used in these engines anyway. My experience with Detroits is that the wet liners of the 92s were a big win over the dry liners of the 53 and 71 for what that is worth.

I have done a little amateur sand crabbing but aluminum and pewter only. Pouring iron is the big leagues.

[SeaSlugs]

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Now the fun part of accurately machining all the bolt holes and threading them in the right locations.

[bart78]

It looks nice. But I wonder what one would cost. Considering that old engine are cheap and easy to find. And a lot of those engines can be got going pretty easy.

[SeaSlugs]

Do they still sell complete rebuilt engines in the 4-5K range out of the parts suppliers?

Gonna be hard to beat that by the time thier cast, cleaned up, tooling setup for drilling and tapping and milling the surfaces, boring the pistons honing them, then ya got the mains and the cam journals to get right along with the oil pump and dist bores correct. Gonna be $7K for just an engine block minus everything with all the time involved... let alone having someone else setup the tooling and actually do the work...


edit: i musta missed the part about running it on a Mazak...gonna have square valves and every angle but 90* on it haha

[Terry, NJ]

I almost hate to say this but in the late nineties, the chinese were casting new ENGINES, not just blocks for the early N series tractors. These complete, running engines were selling for around $2500 IIRFC. They were available through Valu-Bilt, (The old Central Tractor) I know nothing more about them.
Terry

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

Do they still sell complete rebuilt engines in the 4-5K range out of the parts suppliers?

Gonna be hard to beat that by the time thier cast, cleaned up, tooling setup for drilling and tapping and milling the surfaces, boring the pistons honing them, then ya got the mains and the cam journals to get right along with the oil pump and dist bores correct. Gonna be $7K for just an engine block minus everything with all the time involved... let alone having someone else setup the tooling and actually do the work...


edit: i musta missed the part about running it on a Mazak...gonna have square valves and every angle but 90* on it haha

[Terry, NJ]

I just checked their catalog and the price of a NEW engine (Pt #721688) is $ 3400 and change. Rebuilts are less Valu-Bilt Tractor parts. This is the ford flat head I 4 that was developed for use in the Ford N series tractors. The N series were made from 1939 (9N)
to 1952 (8N) They have no less of a following than the Model A automobile.
Terry

[QGolden]

I sincerly wish him well, and his efforts could produce a valuable item. I question if it could be cost effective to set up and sell these blocks. Some of my customers are foundries, and it is evedent that he has obviously invested a great deal in Engineering and Tooling to date, but castings of this nature only pay off if you can move them with some quantity. These are not basic sand castings where you can make a wood pattern and pour a few for a return.

[Chris Haynes]

The last I heard is that Terry was hoping to be able to sell the 5 main block, 5 main counterbalanced crank and H beam rods for $3,000.00

[Jim/GA]

I spent the day with Terry one day last September. If you have not read them yet, read his web pages about the engine.

Terry modeled everything in Solidworks. He built all of the wooden patterns they are using.

Terry told me that the foundry has had to experiment with different mold orientations during the pour to get everything to vent better. They are getting there.

This is a great project and I am excited to get one of his engines when they are available.

[Bill in Al]

JIM/TEX; Me too!

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by Bill in Al

JIM/TEX; Me too!

Very excited to get one.

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

I just checked their catalog and the price of a NEW engine (Pt #721688) is $ 3400 and change. Rebuilts are less Valu-Bilt Tractor parts. This is the ford flat head I 4 that was developed for use in the Ford N series tractors. The N series were made from 1939 (9N)
to 1952 (8N) They have no less of a following than the Model A automobile.
Terry

The 8N engine was used in a very few vehicles by Ford too. It has quite a bit less displacement than the A/B engine and was heavier. I always thought that Ford should have just used the B engine and had a better machine.

The Funk brothers from Coffeyville, Kansas got their start converting these tractors to Ford flathead V8 engines. They later built the Funk airplane with its inverted B engine as we discussed elsewhere recently.

http://www.eyeonkansas.org/seast/mon...nversions.html

I think Donovan built a few aluminum Model A blocks in the nineties. The price was quite high. I believe they were intended for use with the OHV conversion heads but could be used as a flathead if desired.

http://www.donovanengineering.com/Bl...delDBlock.html

This seems to indicate they are still available.

[400A-64]

Terry put on a 1 1/2 hour seminar at the N.Calif Roundup in Pleasanton last week end.
He finally has a complete block ... will cast a few more and then send them to a machine shop . Next step will be various tests. He willnot rush the process .
He can take his time as it his money and no one elses.
Bruce

[Doug in NJ]

If you read his Web site, you'll see that he is testing block casting #24. So he's had to pay for 24 casting jobs so far, with none of them revenue-producing. That's a big investment of time and money on his part.

Doug

[31 Woody]

I heard him speak at the CCRG in April. If I recall correctly, he had to pay for some of the castings, however, once problems were isolated to things under the direction and control of the foundry, they were bearing the burden of the costs for those castings. He had a strict assembly procedure for the casting mold and there were some challenge with following the instructions. Nonetheless, his investment of time and money is likely considerable. His work is very impressive!

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by bart78

It looks nice. But I wonder what one would cost. Considering that old engine are cheap and easy to find. And a lot of those engines can be got going pretty easy.

I believe Terry's goal is to price his new engine comparably with a qualilty, rebuilt long-block.


My experience has been that usable Model A engines are not as cheap and easy to find as they once were... and if you find one without cracks, if it needs boring or babbit, it starts to run into money.


If Terry's engine works-out, it will be a modern, full-pressure, insert-bearing, five-main engine on the inside, that looks like a stock Model A engine on the outside... sounds pretty attractive to me...

[Mike V. Florida]

sounds pretty attractive to me...

Me too

[Terry, NJ]

Me Too! As was noted, good blocks are getting scarcer every year and they usually need work too. I just spent $700 to do the mains on one. That didn't include the rods which were ok and boring which it sorta needs. Terry's engines will be welcomed when he gets the bugs worked out.
Terry