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Old 11-30-2012, 10:31 AM   #1
lenmissy
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Default lead substitute in gas

do any barners use lead substitute in your gas.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:32 AM   #2
flatjack9
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

No. My engine has hard exhaust seats.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

It's my understanding that, (in the '30's & '40's), Ford recommended using Amoco "white gas", the equivalent of unleaded gas at the time. I’ve run unleaded gas in our Flatheads for years… never had any gas related problems until the “corn” gas they have now, started eating the rubber in the fuel pumps, etc.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I stopped using a lead additive 5 years ago. I had to clean out and rebuild the carb every year due to a white, gummy residue in the carb. Never had it again after stopping the additive. And I agree - the new gas has eaten rubber parts in the gas line and fuel pump. Also messed up my lawn tractor, weed wacker, and snow blower.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I think lead additives didn't come in until the 50s when higher performance engines were being built, So most of the flatheads were pre lead motors. I don't believe a stock engine would need the lead, especially with those stock valve springs.
My built motor in my roadster has hardened seats but I am running springs that have 200 lbs pressure over the nose of the cam. I run premium gas (which has less octane then "regular" used to) but don't need a lead additive to keep from pinging.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:37 AM   #6
Seth Swoboda
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Piano View Post
It's my understanding that, (in the '30's & '40's), Ford recommended using Amoco "white gas", the equivalent of unleaded gas at the time. I’ve run unleaded gas in our Flatheads for years… never had any gas related problems until the “corn” gas they have now, started eating the rubber in the fuel pumps, etc.
I have to agree with Vic, the ethanol gas is more destructive than anything. I too have never used a lead substitute.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenmissy View Post
do any barners use lead substitute in your gas.
I don't use lead substitutes in any of my cars. I do add some MMO to the gas tank after every other fill up.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

X2 on the Marvel mystery oil.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:09 PM   #9
Vic Piano
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

X3 on the MMO. I've also installed AMPO Top Oilers on both our '39's. I use MMO in it as well.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
I think lead additives didn't come in until the 50s when higher performance engines were being built, So most of the flatheads were pre lead motors. I don't believe a stock engine would need the lead, especially with those stock valve springs.
My built motor in my roadster has hardened seats but I am running springs that have 200 lbs pressure over the nose of the cam. I run premium gas (which has less octane then "regular" used to) but don't need a lead additive to keep from pinging.
Ethyl gas with lead came out in the 1920s. It is not true that today's premium is lower octane than yesterdays leaded regular. Today's 93 road octane premium has a research octane of around 98. The old premium back in the 60s had a research octane of around 100.

Today's gasoline octane is measured as "road" octane. Road octane is
(research + motor)/2. They came up with the "motor" method of octane rating about the time unleaded gasoline came out and the EPA started regulating fuels. Some unleaded fuels with a high research octane and a low motor octane would still knock so they started specifying a minimum for both and started posting the octane at the pump as road octane instead of research octane. Research octane simulates highway driving and motor octane simulates city driving.

Last edited by mrtexas; 11-30-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Michigan has a "recreational fuel" for boats, ATV, lawn mowers, tractors etc. I've used it for several years. Big difference. I have also added the Gunk substitute with no problems. Maybe other States don't have that fuel ! I use it in my '40 Sedan and '49 F-1.

Mike
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I've been debating using lead additive in my engine but was told it already has hardened seats. I'll be replacing whatever rubber lines I can with either fuel injection hose or Gates Barricade hose. I've used it before in other vehicles and so far I don't think I've had any problems with it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I've never run lead additive in any of my flatheads. Don't need it for technology that was developed before lead additives.:-) X4 on the MMO, usually every other tank for me.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
I think lead additives didn't come in until the 50s when higher performance engines were being built, So most of the flatheads were pre lead motors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtexas View Post
Ethyl gas with lead came out in the 1920s.
A little more history that's interesting and informative:

In 1919, Dayton Metal Products Co. merged with General Motors. They formed a research division that set out to solve two problems: the need for high compression engines and the insufficient supply of fuel that would run them. On December 9, 1921 chemists led by Charles F. Kettering and his assistants Thomas Midgley and T.A. Boyd added Tetraethyl lead to the fuel in a laboratory engine. The ever present knock, caused by auto-ignition of fuel being compressed past its ignition temperature, was completely silenced. Most all automobiles at the time were subject to this engine knock so the research team was overjoyed. Over time, other manufacturers found that by adding lead to fuel they could significantly improve the octane rating of the gas. This allowed them to produce much cheaper grades of fuel and still maintain the needed octane ratings that a car’s engine required.

Another benefit that became known over time was that Tetraethyl lead kept valve seats from becoming worn down prematurely. Exhaust valves, in early model cars, that were subject to engine knocking tended to get micro-welds that would get pulled apart on opening. This resulted in rough valve seats and premature failure. Lead helped fuel ignite only when appropriate on the power stroke, thus helping eliminate exhaust valve wear and tear. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....BlJbB2iJv2h.99

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Last edited by Old Henry; 11-30-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I used the lead additive for about 6 years in my 1955 , Y b;lock and never had any problems with it . I sold the engine and trans to someone on the HAMB and they are still using the same engine without any problems and haven't done any engine work to it either .
I have used the lead additive in other engine too and haven't had any problems either .
maybe I am lucky or whatever but I used it all the time without any problems .

Jim
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:16 PM   #16
Ken/Alabama
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

The later flatheads don't have hard seats in them. The unleaded gas is detrimental to the seats. I've experienced this first Hand
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I've used CD2 Lead Substitute for 6 years over 25,000 miles without problems. I use it even though it's no longer needed as an octane booster since even the lowest modern gasoline is higher octane than what was available when my car was made. I use it to protect the valve seats as was the secondary benefit of lead in the early Fords. Unfortunately CD2 is no longer made nor available. I stockpiled it when I realized it was no longer made while it was still available and have a supply for many years to come. It was cheap - one once for 10 gallons - compared to current additives that require a whole bottle for 20 gallons.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:08 AM   #18
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Valve seats were hardened on Ford engines prior to the Korean war. Those flatheads of the 50's that have since been rebuilt would most likely have had hard seats fitted at that time. Of those that remain on the road today that never saw hard seats in these 50+ years, yes, a lead additive can prolong the life of those engines. MMO can help most engines for reasons unrelated to lead.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

I've used Kemco Lead Supreme 130 in my tow vehicle and high performance vehicles for years. Also used some in my 37 and 38 a few years ago. This stuff is not a lead substitute, it is real Tetra Ethyl Lead. Boosts Octane and cushions the valve seats. Use with caution, rubber gloves, etc. as it is very toxic. Kemco Industries, Lehi, Utah.

In CA ("For off road use only").

Now my disclaimers;

"Your mileage may vary", "Objects in your mirror may be closer than they appear", etc.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: lead substitute in gas

Quote:
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I've used Kemco Lead Supreme 130 in my tow vehicle and high performance vehicles for years. . . . This stuff is not a lead substitute, it is real Tetra Ethyl Lead. . . .
In CA ("For off road use only")
BE SURE TO NOTE: It's not just California that limits lead in gasoline to "Off Road Use Only". The Clean Air Act and corresponding EPA regulations prohibit gasoline containing lead or lead additives (leaded gasoline) as a motor vehicle fuel after December 31, 1995. https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...let-restrictor From 1 January 1996, the Clean Air Act banned the sale of leaded fuel for use in on-road vehicles. Possession and use of leaded gasoline in a regular on-road vehicle now carries a maximum $10,000 fine in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Tetraethyl_lead

So, use real lead on public streets and roads at some risk.
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Last edited by Old Henry; 12-01-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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