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Old 08-21-2020, 12:52 PM   #1
California Charlie
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Default Frame welting application

I'm at the point of installing welting on my 1931 frame and would like to know in inches how far back does the welting go towards the back of the frame. An inch measurement taken from the very end of the back of the frame to where the welting would end.

ALSO

Does anyone have any comments about installing the frame welting using contact cement. I understand there is welting available with an adhesive backing, but I am using welting without that adhesive. It just seems better to put the body back on the frame if the welting was held in place with being tacked down during that process.

Thanks to all who take the time to answer my questions.
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Old 08-21-2020, 01:46 PM   #2
31Tudor
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Default Re: Frame welting application

The welting starts about 2" past the rear of the splash apron and continues forward just wrapping over the front horns, but not below them. I have used contact cement, no problem. I have fit them first, marking and punching the holes in them, and then put the contact cement on and then put them on. You put webbing on the front body bolt pad with the two holes and also on the rear hood clamp pad.
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Old 08-21-2020, 02:01 PM   #3
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Quote:
Originally Posted by 31Tudor View Post
The welting starts about 2" past the rear of the splash apron and continues forward just wrapping over the front horns, but not below them. I have used contact cement, no problem. I have fit them first, marking and punching the holes in them, and then put the contact cement on and then put them on. You put webbing on the front body bolt pad with the two holes and also on the rear hood clamp pad.
Are you certain about this? On unmolested original cars I have disassembled, the anti-squeak was only under the apron and the front fender. No need to extend it 2" more inches.
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Old 08-21-2020, 02:09 PM   #4
Mike Peters
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Default Re: Frame welting application

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...3770&showall=1
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Old 08-21-2020, 02:11 PM   #5
31Tudor
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Are you certain about this? On unmolested original cars I have disassembled, the anti-squeak was only under the apron and the front fender. No need to extend it 2" more inches.
Well.....yes and no. That is what is was told by two Henry winners? Which have done 3 cars between the two of them. I did mine that way and did not receive any deduction in that area. My answer was just based on what i have been told.
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Old 08-21-2020, 02:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Frame welting application

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There were a lot of assembly plants during the era. While most followed directives or instructions from experienced workers or section supervisors, there always seems to be exceptions. As long as it functions as an anti-squeak then it's good to go. I wouldn't lose much sleep over it one way or the other.
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Old 08-21-2020, 02:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions. All the information was very informative to me.
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:52 PM   #8
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Quote:
Originally Posted by 31Tudor View Post
Well.....yes and no. That is what is was told by two Henry winners? Which have done 3 cars between the two of them. I did mine that way and did not receive any deduction in that area. My answer was just based on what i have been told.
It has been my experience that just because there was not a deduction given during adjudication does not make it correct or authentic.

With regard to a comment in one of the previous linked posts, there was comment made that I should post a picture that I found at the archives that counters what others believe. This is an area where I am probably a little more lax now in publicly posting images and clips that I have paid for, however there was a time when I was worried about publicly posting images and information that I received from the Benson Library for fear I would not be allowed to research there for breaking their rules. Anymore, I just tend to say "whatever" to those that push their opinion if it counters mine. A great example is a question Hunter Fanning asked here about 10 years ago about frame welting. Marco gave his opinion as to what was correct. He is a great historian and a very knowledgeable restorer for which I have great respect for. I have included something that shows where my research counters what his was. That is why it is suggested in the Standards to restore your car based on your own research.

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Attached Files
File Type: pdf MarcosAnswer.pdf (114.0 KB, 46 views)
File Type: pdf Frame Welting Dimensions.pdf (1.87 MB, 52 views)
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:54 PM   #9
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Try this....

http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studie...EAKARTICLE.pdf
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:56 PM   #10
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Quote:
Originally Posted by 31Tudor View Post
The welting starts about 2" past the rear of the splash apron and continues forward just wrapping over the front horns, but not below them. I have used contact cement, no problem. I have fit them first, marking and punching the holes in them, and then put the contact cement on and then put them on. You put webbing on the front body bolt pad with the two holes and also on the rear hood clamp pad.
Below is a picture showing the proper length of the anti-squeak at the rear of the body apron..

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File Type: jpg frame_antisqueak--05a.jpg (84.5 KB, 68 views)
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Old 08-21-2020, 04:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Frame welting application

I used 3-M "Gorilla Snot" to cement the webbing to the frame.
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Old 08-21-2020, 05:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Frame welting application

how do you guys actually punch the holes through the webbing?
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Old 08-21-2020, 06:41 PM   #13
California Charlie
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Thank you Brent.

A friend drove over to my home with his project Model A Ford which the body had not been removed from the frame. After looking at the frame underneath the car, I could see the webbing positioning under the body apron. The webbing was observed not being installed past the body apron on the frame.

The positioning for the Anti-squeak material was the same as pictured in the photo you sent. It appeared the webbing applied to the frame did not go past the body apron. Thanks very much for your input, and additionally thank everyone else who responded to this post.
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Old 08-21-2020, 07:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Frame welting application

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Originally Posted by ericr View Post
how do you guys actually punch the holes through the webbing?
I use a screwdriver with no blade and tapered a little. With the webbing glued in place heat with a MAP torch and it will melt a nice round hole.

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Old 08-21-2020, 10:17 PM   #15
steve smith
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Default Re: Frame welting application

I use a Weller electric soldering iron. Can control the heat easily.
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Old 08-21-2020, 11:04 PM   #16
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Smile Re: Frame welting application

X2
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Old 08-21-2020, 11:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
It has been my experience that just because there was not a deduction given during adjudication does not make it correct or authentic.

With regard to a comment in one of the previous linked posts, there was comment made that I should post a picture that I found at the archives that counters what others believe. This is an area where I am probably a little more lax now in publicly posting images and clips that I have paid for, however there was a time when I was worried about publicly posting images and information that I received from the Benson Library for fear I would not be allowed to research there for breaking their rules. Anymore, I just tend to say "whatever" to those that push their opinion if it counters mine. A great example is a question Hunter Fanning asked here about 10 years ago about frame welting. Marco gave his opinion as to what was correct. He is a great historian and a very knowledgeable restorer for which I have great respect for. I have included something that shows where my research counters what his was. That is why it is suggested in the Standards to restore your car based on your own research.

.
Brent, It's interesting that you choose to criticize Marco's knowledge by using a single post extracted from a thread that is more than 10 years old and was made on the Old Fordbarn Forum, which can't even be accessed anymore to see what else might have been said at the time. At the same time, the challenged comments you made in the above linked threads, with regard to the frame welting being glued to both the fender and the apron, and not the frame, which were questioned at the time, you have yet to respond to. Care to elaborate now?
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Old 08-22-2020, 06:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Frame welting application

I stick the webbing down with 3M spray adhesive then I heat a marlin spike with a propane torch and push it through the webbing in all the hole locations . I goes through like a knife through butter and leaves a neat sealed round hole . The spike has a sharp point so does the hood latch holes easily . I do this just prior to putting the body on . This system works great with fender welting as well .

John visiting with eldest daughter in Bath ,just been on a long walk in Lansdown Woods breezy sunny day .Somerset County England .
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Frame welting or anti-squeek can be applied to the frame/fenders in a few different ways for sure.

For those of you looking for the correct way, at least how the specific material was cut and curried, here is something I researched out a few years ago through the data at the Ford Archives,

http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studie...EAKARTICLE.pdf

The Asphaltum Treatment of Ford’s Anti-Squeak material that I mentioned in the article could have been "thinned down"...it was just a little bit to thick in my opinion.

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Old 08-22-2020, 10:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Frame welting application

Quote:
Originally Posted by 31Tudor View Post
The welting starts about 2" past the rear of the splash apron and continues forward just wrapping over the front horns, but not below them.
In another similar thread I was asking a question about welting and this ^^^ is the answer I was looking for. So am I correct in assuming that there is no welting between frame and other body mount points aft of the rear of the splash aprons? Body mount blocks go directly to the frame with nothing in between? Are there rubber shim pads on top of all of the blocks, or do the the shims/pads go underneath the block between the frame and block?

Lynn
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