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Old 05-24-2020, 12:01 PM   #1
Bob Bidonde
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Default Banger Engine Build

What will this engine cost me? I have a Model "B" engine in my Coupe that has stock dimensions, but it is getting tired. I want to rebuild the engine with:
> Rebuilt short block;
> Insert bearings;
> Modern rear & front main bearing seals;
> Pressurized oil supply system;
> Touring grind camshaft;
> Metal camshaft timing gear;
> Modern stainless valves with larger diameter intakes;
> 7:1 Cylinder head;
> Balanced reciprocating & rotating components;
> Stock flywheel lightened the max amount;
> Exhaust header;
> Weber carburetor.

My goals are to increase mid range torque, cruise at 60 - 65 MPH (3000 RPM), and burst to 75 - 80 MPH (3645 RPM) for passing running with 87 Octane gasoline and running a stock 3.78:1 differential.
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Old 05-24-2020, 03:07 PM   #2
Jack Shaft
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

The B mains are pressurized already,dipper rods are good to 4k rpm before they move too fast to pick up oil. Jim Brierley for a cam he does regrinds,(rumor is he has Ed Winfields cam blanks)he has a nice head too,he also wrote a book on this. Bill Stipe if you want new..Dan McEachern for timing and crank gear,bronze is best. Todd Buttermore for heads as well,AER for your rods,Reds Headers for a tubing header,Snyders for cast.Schwalms in PA or Antique Engine Rebuilders (AER) in Skokie IL for machine work..outside of Ed Winfield the other gentlemen Ive named are members here and have way more knowledge, tons of other guys too John Neillson,Pete SC/CR..cats who know from experience and can guide to to what you need..

Mitchell Overdrive for the speeds your looking for
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:41 PM   #3
john in illinois
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Bob, I really can not help with cost. Rich at antique Engine would be a good resource. He was helpful to me. Also many of my club members have had leaking modern rear seals on a fresh rebuild.

Have fun.John
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Old 05-24-2020, 06:06 PM   #4
Jerry in Shasta
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Qustion??? you got 70MPH steering and brakes???
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:41 PM   #5
Jack Shaft
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

generally when you want to build power your savvy enough to maintain brakes and steering.
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:12 AM   #6
J Franklin
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shaft View Post
generally when you want to build power your savvy enough to maintain brakes and steering.
Some are, but some are not. It was a legitimate question that needs to be mulled over.
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:25 AM   #7
steve smith
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
What will this engine cost me? I have a Model "B" engine in my Coupe that has stock dimensions, but it is getting tired. I want to rebuild the engine with:
> Rebuilt short block;
> Insert bearings;
> Modern rear & front main bearing seals;
> Pressurized oil supply system;
> Touring grind camshaft;
> Metal camshaft timing gear;
> Modern stainless valves with larger diameter intakes;
> 7:1 Cylinder head;
> Balanced reciprocating & rotating components;
> Stock flywheel lightened the max amount;
> Exhaust header;
> Weber carburetor.

My goals are to increase mid range torque, cruise at 60 - 65 MPH (3000 RPM), and burst to 75 - 80 MPH (3645 RPM) for passing running with 87 Octane gasoline and running a stock 3.78:1 differential.
You just described my engine in my town sedan. With a 36% Mitchell overdrive I cruise at 60 at about 200 rpm at about 70 hp. We tour several hundred miles a year easily.
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Old 05-25-2020, 01:23 AM   #8
Pete
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
What will this engine cost me? I have a Model "B" engine in my Coupe that has stock dimensions, but it is getting tired. I want to rebuild the engine with:
> Rebuilt short block;
> Insert bearings;
> Modern rear & front main bearing seals;
> Pressurized oil supply system;
> Touring grind camshaft;
> Metal camshaft timing gear;
> Modern stainless valves with larger diameter intakes;
> 7:1 Cylinder head;
> Balanced reciprocating & rotating components;
> Stock flywheel lightened the max amount;
> Exhaust header;
> Weber carburetor.

My goals are to increase mid range torque, cruise at 60 - 65 MPH (3000 RPM), and burst to 75 - 80 MPH (3645 RPM) for passing running with 87 Octane gasoline and running a stock 3.78:1 differential.
I have done 2 cars with very similar mods and a few more things to the car after I got the engine in. You will have around 100 hp if you use the best available parts and choose the right parts. That is a crap shoot what with all the available advice. If you are able to do some of the work, the price goes down.
You are talking about a hot rod engine, like it or not, so find somebody who has done it to help you, preferably close to you so you can ask questions in person.
Costwise, after you get done, at least 10K.
You will find after you get it running that it is going to want to turn WAY past 3700 so quick it will make your head spin. You will need an overdrive or 5 gear transmission. (more money) You will eventually want better brakes. (more money) 12volts? Maybe. More comfortable seats because you will want to drive it everywhere. CD player if you are old aand like old music. (not necessary)
After a couple seasons of touring, you will want more hp so you can compete on the 10 lane freeways. (BIG BUX)
On and on and on. You have beome a hot rodder, like it or not.....LOL

One piece of SERIOUS advice. Forget the cast iron flywheel on a seriously modified engine. Either steel or aluminum are available. Either will work and never remove your legs or feet.
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Old 05-25-2020, 08:49 AM   #9
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

"about 200 rpm at about 70 hp." TYPO??
Paul in CT
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

I agree .
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:28 AM   #11
Jack Shaft
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Ill stipulate to the consideration of brakes and steering sir,you both have a point.An F100 steering box is a good investment and clearly the front end needs to be tight. Some feel hydraulic brakes are necessary,others prefer mechanical. which ever you choose proper installation and maintenance is key.Im running an F100 with mechanicals, woven shoes,cast iron drums with tight brake foundations on 16" wheels with modern radials,Ford adjustment method,no brake stick foolishness..neither braking system will be effective without increased traction afforded by modern radials of at least a 205 aspect ratio.

Pete is right about the addiction factor of hotrodding,its real. I limit myself to the four cylinder ford L head engine of '28 to '34,especially the flathead part wander down the OHV road and that 8 to 10k investment becomes 15k..a funny story,helped a guy final tune his B engine Miller Serr OHV with all the goodies,weber/cast manifold,FSI ignition full pressure engine..we got it running real nice (those serr/cragars love advance) and I turned to him and said 'damn,that thing is just like a Pinto engine'...his face fell to the ground..



Petes right about a nice chair too..06 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) rear seat fits coupe bodies nice.

Last edited by Jack Shaft; 05-25-2020 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

You state, "I want to rebuild..." So you must be technically savvy enough or you plan on doing some serious learning. If so it will probably cost less than half, except expect some very expensive tuition in the school of hard knocks. However, on the other side you will have a real knowledge of what is in your engine, and how to fix it. On the other hand, maybe you meant your going to pay to have someone do it, in which case you should find a local builder who will be around to maintain it as long as you plan on owning it. It will require a lot more know how than a stock engine.
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Jack Shaft,

You really know how to hurt a Guy. Pinto, if only it had anywhere near the torque.

In reality, if you have to ask how much it cost, you will not be able to afford it.

If in fact the existing motor is good, no cracks anywhere, not been "re-babbited" and goofed up, a good "C" crank etc, probably in the $10k range. There is a ton of work necessary to add all the features and properly assemble.

If truly interested in building a motor such as this, invest in Brierley's book and read it till you start to understand what you are undertaking. The technology of this vintage was never thought to have these operating conditions.

Can it be done, yes. J

PS, just a side note; in order for a part to be considered good, "it must PASS the inspection procedure" just because it was magnefluxed doesn't mean it passed.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:03 AM   #14
Bob Bidonde
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

For the record, I previously built a mild banger Model "B" engine that propelled my 45B Coupe to 80 MPH with a stock 3.78:1 ring & pinion. This engine cruised at 60 mph and easily went to 70 MPH for passing. At 80 MPH the suspension feedback became scary, but the engine was still pulling hard. The mechanical brakes in my Model A's are self centering, so stopping is not an issue, but I am considering using 1932 Ford 12" brakes. The stock 19" wheels were part of the scary feedback, so they have been replaced with 1932 18" wheels and 650-18 tires.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:42 AM   #15
Jack Shaft
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Torque? Its what makes it all worth while..red light bandit,phone pole to phone pole quick shots,build it right and you can shame some folks..run a quail..quail like lightening flushed..
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:43 AM   #16
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

For comfortable cruising I would install an overdrive and shoot for around 2100 RPM at your desired speed. It will be more comfortable and the engine will last longer. If interested in my book, contact me at jimb4e4@gmail.com
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Bob,

For some reason I had thought you had a hopped up motor before, you are not new to this sort of maintenance and the other changes required.

I forgot to mention about something you may want to investigate. Pistons and ring package. The technology of the last 25 years has made strides in piston rings and piston design. If I may, the benefits of using modern rings out weighs the cost of pistons.

Take care today, we just had 5 T6 Texans do a flyover.
J
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:14 AM   #18
Jim Brierley
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If you are going to run it that hard, be sure the engine is set up plenty loose, especially piston clearance.
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:57 AM   #19
Dave in MN
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Bob,
From my experience the cost will be close to $7,000.00.

Be prepared to replace the "B" block if you plan to build the power and speed by upping the engine RPM only. IMO: The weak spot in the Model B engine is with the exhaust ports. If you develop the HP necessary to run the car down the road for long distances at the speed you describe, the block will likely fail at the exhaust ports. An overdrive will greatly reduce the heat load on the engine/exhaust valves ports and bring the RPM down so the ride will be more enjoyable.

I have two cars and engines capable of 60-65 all day with the occasional burst to 75 if necessary. Both have overdrives. The one with the "B" engine is on its second block.
FWIW: It is never enjoyable driving at any speed over 65 MPH in either car. Too loud and the front of the cars get pretty light at speeds over 70 MPH. At 75 mph and over it gets scary. The wind gets under the front fenders and reduces the front sprung weight. At this point/speed the steering gets real easy, like you were riding on air. At those speeds I think you partially are!
Please be careful.
Good Day!

Last edited by Dave in MN; 05-26-2020 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Banger Engine Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
What will this engine cost me? I have a Model "B" engine in my Coupe that has stock dimensions, but it is getting tired. I want to rebuild the engine with:
> Rebuilt short block;
> Insert bearings;
> Modern rear & front main bearing seals;
> Pressurized oil supply system;
> Touring grind camshaft;
> Metal camshaft timing gear;
> Modern stainless valves with larger diameter intakes;
> 7:1 Cylinder head;
> Balanced reciprocating & rotating components;
> Stock flywheel lightened the max amount;
> Exhaust header;
> Weber carburetor.

My goals are to increase mid range torque, cruise at 60 - 65 MPH (3000 RPM), and burst to 75 - 80 MPH (3645 RPM) for passing running with 87 Octane gasoline and running a stock 3.78:1 differential.
Hey Bob,
You scare hell out of me, by talking these numbers....WITH MECHANICAL BRAKES !!
That said, back in 2002 I had all ‘Improvements’ that you mention...and more done for 10K.
However, I already had my own NOS B block; NEW drilled C crank and new Crower rods for this build. So you can figure costs add on.

I must say that you do not mention full filtered oil system, a MUST , in my opinion when putting that much $$$$.$$ into a B.

I’d like to hear how you are planning to SAFELY slow/stop quickly from such projected speeds ?
BTW
My B work was done in Turlock, back when.
Good luck with this project !
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