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Old 01-18-2016, 02:41 PM   #21
RalphG
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

My 39 had the banjo fitting on the line going into the fuel pump stand. I got a little careless one day and over tightened (twisted it off). Lucky to find a N.O.S. one at the local Ford dealer. This was over 40 years ago of course. I also had a new line complete with banjo fitting custom made at a hydraulic shop. It looked a little crude but worked fine. The car has good oil pressure and only a slight leak at the banjo fitting.
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

Thanks Dan. I'll check it out. I may not use a banjo after all. Brain gears are still turning. LOL
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Originally Posted by Kube View Post
Many mechanics back in 'the day" placed the return line at the base of the fuel pump stand as you have done. That is the reason Ford gave in a service letter in early 1940 as to why they changed the design to go to the timing gear cover. Apparently this method (yours) increased oil consumption dramatically.
Well, all I can say is "It worked for me."

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Old 01-18-2016, 08:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
Dammit Mike, I thought we had an agreement to disagree on everything. You cheated.
That was THE exception to the rule
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Old 01-18-2016, 09:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Don't ask me, Mike is the guy that said they're easily available!
If one watches eBay, they seem to come up every week or so.
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Thanks for all of the input fellows. I sure appreciate it. I am still mulling this over, trying to decide exactly what to do. Changing oil twice a year, and not doing all that much running around, I may just forget about the filter all together.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:24 AM   #27
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

Lawson-

My experience using old NOS rubber return lines is they are a waste of time. The rubber hose can easily crumble with the slightest movement. I don't know if this has been suggested to you but there is a "punch tool" that can make a neat leak-proof hole in the oil pan for a return line.

Tom
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

Having no filter is an option. The engine I have in my 33 has no filter.

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Old 01-20-2016, 11:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Lawson-

My experience using old NOS rubber return lines is they are a waste of time. The rubber hose can easily crumble with the slightest movement. I don't know if this has been suggested to you but there is a "punch tool" that can make a neat leak-proof hole in the oil pan for a return line.

Tom
Now that's an idea I had not thunk of. Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:56 AM   #30
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Thanks for all of the input fellows. I sure appreciate it. I am still mulling this over, trying to decide exactly what to do. Changing oil twice a year, and not doing all that much running around, I may just forget about the filter all together.
Lawson, If it were me... I'd pass on the filter. The new oils are by far superior to those of yesteryear and with a change perhaps twice a year, well, let's be honest about this --- that engine will last a lot longer than either of us.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:42 PM   #31
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Originally Posted by flatheadfan View Post
Lawson-

My experience using old NOS rubber return lines is they are a waste of time. The rubber hose can easily crumble with the slightest movement. I don't know if this has been suggested to you but there is a "punch tool" that can make a neat leak-proof hole in the oil pan for a return line.

Tom
My Dad had a very busy and successful Frantz Filter franchise in the mid 70's. He installed a lot of filters and used a LOT of those types of fittings in oil pans - and in addition to that simple punch shown above, he had what looked like a big C-Clamp device that he'd screw down on the sides of the oil-pans and tighten one side -> which would punch an oil-return hole in them. Then he has a fitting with a rubber gasket that screwed into the pan. Worked slick as hell . . .
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Old 10-01-2021, 06:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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^ That may have been me. I found that the stock V8 Pilot and other (possibly non US) location half way up the side of the pump stand base was squirting hot oil straight across the filler tube. I had a blowby problem and the hot oil was being ejected and making the problem a lot worse.

I plugged the factory hole in the side of the stand and made a banjo bolt from a drilled out 5/16 UNC bolt. I then used a metric brake banjo fitting (from a Skoda of all things) and found that a 1/8 NPT fitting screwed into it well enough to seal. There is no pressure at this joint, just a return. The existing return pipe was rerouted into the new banjo fitting. The metric fitting had a M10x 1mm pitch thread.

The new setup did not suffer from oil ejection from the filler as the oil enters the valve chamber outside of the baffle tube. As long as the two baffle tubes are in place and the manifold has a through hole, the system works well.

I'll dig out a photo and post it here.

Not saying it is best practice, but in my case it was preferable to a timing cover location because the oil filter is bulkhead mounted and all the pipework was already in that rearward location.

Mart.

Edit: I found the post and have pasted it in below:

Here's the latest.

There's a secondary aspect that I have been mulling over. My bypass filter feeds back to the engine at the fuel pump stand. I took the cap off last night and could see the oil flowing into the stand and running down the baffles. Imagine that happening at high revs, (more flow??) with lots of air trying to rush up past it, and it's bound to pick some up and carry it along in the air.

Probably another reason it was as bad as it was.

I reworked the oil return from the bypass filter this afternoon.
Check this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzP0u5L4_WE

You can't see the oil stream from the return, but you can see the wetness down there and the way the oil gets picked up as I rev it.

So I replaced the fuel pump stand for one without the (Ford original) return boss.

To allow the oil to be able to return I needed a route that would not require engine or sump removal. I hit on the fuel stand bosses - at least on this manifold they are through drilled into the valve chamber. Importantly they are outside, rather than inside the filler tube extension that goes straight down to the crankcase.

I made a special banjo bolt:


I'm really digging my little Myford lathe!

And utilised a handy brake banjo (salvaged from a Skoda (of all things) in the scrap yard ages ago)




And reworked the existing return pipe to suit.




The oil filler is now nice and dry:




This is after a good run around with plenty of wide open throttle and high rev usage.

The oil filter and return pipe were nice and hot - which to me indicates there is plenty of flow.

I'm now quietly confident that with the PCV in place and the modified oil filter return my oil ejection problems will be solved.

I get a kick out of coming up with solutions to problems - to me that's what Hot Rodding is all about.

Mart.
Hi Mart I love your videos!! Can I please ask if you can you possibly re-post the oil return video you tube has removed it?? Or send me a copy? [email protected]. You tube.com/watchP0u5L4 we if not thanks any way john sullivan Wisconsin😁 last posted 1-18-2016 post #15
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Old 10-01-2021, 06:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

Lawson, Just keep on running without a filter. None of mine have filters . Not saying filters are a bad thing but it’s just another one of them things to deal with. Been driving for 30 years without one. I figure it’ll out last me.
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Old 10-01-2021, 06:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Originally Posted by lgndlt5 View Post
Hi Mart I love your videos!! Can I please ask if you can you possibly re-post the oil return video you tube has removed it?? Or send me a copy? [email protected]. You tube.com/watchP0u5L4 we if not thanks any way john sullivan Wisconsin😁 last posted 1-18-2016 post #15
This set up is the exact reason Ford went to their second design - dumping the oil to the timing gear cover. The issue with the first design was mechanics would place the return line where you have it vs. the designed special fitting at the pump to stand bolt and the engine would consume excessive oil.
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Old 10-02-2021, 10:48 AM   #35
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

My 39 Deluxe has the banjo bolt and line into the fuel pump stand. I found out many years ago that you can twist that bolt off fairly easy when trying to overtighten it to stop the leaks. Lucky the Ford dealer had a new one. In later years go a custom hydraulic shop to make up a new flexible hose for it. They can make pretty much any hose you need. Also made one for my 52 Merc filter line. Not cheap, but good.
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Old 10-03-2021, 09:55 AM   #36
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

This was my solution.
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...+filter+return
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Old 10-03-2021, 10:43 AM   #37
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Originally Posted by lgndlt5 View Post
Hi Mart I love your videos!! Can I please ask if you can you possibly re-post the oil return video you tube has removed it?? Or send me a copy? [email protected]. You tube.com/watchP0u5L4 we if not thanks any way john sullivan Wisconsin😁 last posted 1-18-2016 post #15
John. I deleted the file myself. But I found the original and have uploaded it at this address:
https://youtu.be/Dub2QdSGrNs
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Old 10-03-2021, 12:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

I returned my oil filter line to a 1/8 NPT located at the top of the timing cover to lub the timing gear - quiets the timing gear. And no oil leaks from banjo bolts.
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Old 10-04-2021, 07:53 AM   #39
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

Here's a photo of the 40 oil return line.
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Old 10-04-2021, 12:36 PM   #40
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Default Re: Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

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Here's a photo of the 40 oil return line.
This is the second design for 1940. For concourse judged cars, this would not have appeared prior to April, 1940.
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