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Old 04-16-2018, 01:20 PM   #1
LuckyFordGuy
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Default Rotella Oil Question

I have been using Rotella T 15-40 for 10 years in my flat head 50 ford V8
Now they changed the label to Rotella T-4 15-40 and it says comparable to the previous Rotella T 15-40. My question is does it still have enough Zink in it?
Any response is appreciated. I don't want to ruin my cam. What is the next best oil for my flat head?
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

For starters a flathead valve spring pressure is nowhere near high enough to require zinc type additives. Remember, there was never an issue in the original engines. These type of additives became prominent when OHV engines with higher valve spring pressure became the norm.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

This is what I use...Its expensive, but worth it for me.

https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

According to Shell's web page the Rotella T4 15W-40 is rated for higher temperatures than the old Rotella T. That is the only difference I could find.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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According to Shell's web page the Rotella T4 15W-40 is rated for higher temperatures than the old Rotella T.
Then it should be ideal for flatheads
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:59 PM   #6
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Valvoline VR-1 racing oil has higher zinc content. 20W50 is found at most parts stores, and is only a little more expensive than regular oil. Its detergent content is said to be lower than regular oil. Now that the overhaul is well broken in, I may start using 2 quarts of VR-1 and 3 quarts of regular high detergent Valvoline "Daily Protection" oil.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:02 PM   #7
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Then it should be ideal for flatheads
LOL no doubt!
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Rotella all the way.......
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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Then it should be ideal for flatheads
Flatheads run cooler than just about any engine around! The overheat condition with them has to do with them having a low operation temp to begin with and a non-pressurized coolant system. Even the later flatheads with low pressure systems are far below modern engines in operating temps.

Temps below even 212 are considered overheating in a flathead. Most engines can run well above 212.

From a Hot Rod mag article:

"Cold engine oil causes excessive frictional drag on the bearings and cylinder walls. A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees. Even on a short-duration, drag-only combo where oil is frequently changed, I would not want to routinely see under-200-degree oil temps."

Last edited by JSeery; 04-16-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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Originally Posted by LuckyFordGuy View Post
I have been using Rotella T 15-40 for 10 years in my flat head 50 ford V8
Now they changed the label to Rotella T-4 15-40 and it says comparable to the previous Rotella T 15-40. My question is does it still have enough Zink in it?
Any response is appreciated. I don't want to ruin my cam. What is the next best oil for my flat head?
I bet at some point in its life, your '50 Ford ran many miles on non-detergent oil (so no zinc) and the cam survived just fine! I'd guess also that once it became an oil burner, it was fed re-refined oil, the cheapest available!
And still the cam survived. So your cam will survive just fine on any modern oil, which still has some zinc in it.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

re-refined oil...sorry for the drift, but in my youth i worked at warden oil in mpls. we took in drain oil, and ran it thru a long "press" they called it. it was, about 15 feet long, made up of 1 inch thick 4'x4' steel frames with canvas covers. they would mix some kinda clay in with the oil, mix and heat it up and pump it thru the press. about once an hour we would slide all the frames apart and scrape off the gook from the canvas and go again. the oil that came out was golden yellow like new. not sure what they did with the gook, and needless to say the epa shut it down in the 80's. all the holiday stations around the midwest sold it as the "house' brand
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:04 AM   #12
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Thanks guys for the help I will keep running Rotella 15 40 was just checking Thanks again Rog
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Yeah, as a teen I remember buying that 10 cent a quart re-refined oil at the Powerene Station in South Gate, California. They would even give you a gaudy glass tumbler or a small box of laundry detergent with a 10 gallon or more fill up. Gas was 24.9 cents a gallon.
Glad my flathead didn't know I was cheap (poor) or it may have needed special counseling.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:05 AM   #14
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Smile Re: Rotella Oil Question

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Rotella all the way.......


BUBBA knows oil !! X2 ....
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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Yeah, as a teen I remember buying that 10 cent a quart re-refined oil at the Powerene Station in South Gate, California. They would even give you a gaudy glass tumbler or a small box of laundry detergent with a 10 gallon or more fill up. Gas was 24.9 cents a gallon.
Glad my flathead didn't know I was cheap (poor) or it may have needed special counseling.
Do you remember where that station was and about the year? I grew up in South Gate and it was great!
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Oakhurst, Firestone Bl @ Otis caddy corner from the origional SG Jr High School and across the street from Lucky Boys hamburger stand
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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Oakhurst, Firestone Bl @ Otis caddy corner from the origional SG Jr High School and across the street from Lucky Boys hamburger stand
I remember that station very well. It was one of the largest around as I recall. We lived on Kaufman between Tweedy and Abbot Rd. Had a 31 coupe. Drove it in the neighborhood @ 14 years old. Went down Firestone across Alameda for all the wrecking yards. Never got a ticket in South Gate. If you lived there the cops were great. Used to go down Tweedy to Atlantic in Lynwood and watch crazy guys in a custom car shop. (George Barris, Dean Jefferies) Gaylords Upholstery was near South Gate Park. Clock Drive in, Harvey's broiler. Great times!
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

With the new configuration of Rotella, Ford specifies that it not be used in their diesels. In fact, I think they will void the warranty if it's used.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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With the new configuration of Rotella, Ford specifies that it not be used in their diesels. In fact, I think they will void the warranty if it's used.
.....and the plot thickens

JB
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

I run it in my Cummins powered motorhome. But not in the flatheads. Too much detergent. Run diesel oil in diesels.

Last edited by philipswanson; 05-19-2018 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:24 PM   #21
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

I'm going to run it in my 2017 Ram with a Cummins and my flatheads.....oh NOOOOO!
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

I can only guess at the sleepless nights over oil!
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Every motor (engine) around my house uses Rotella. Lawn mower, tractor, cars, trucks. Never a problem.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

I just bought some oil at fleet farm, it's Mobil super. $16 for 5qts of 10w-30. $12 dollar rebate on returning it full with your used oil. Did I mess up? I will change it again. Maybe more important in a new vehicle. My 06 f150 says on the gas cap only use BP gas, can't win.

Maybe a mn thing but... as I bought a gallon of stain and they charged me a $1 painting fee here, but the state recycles for free. Win some loose some I guess.




..

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Old 05-20-2018, 06:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION View Post
Rotella all the way.......
Yeap I use it in everything.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:01 AM   #26
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I use Rotella in all my diesels. I use Valvoleen 20-50 racing oil (Gray bottle) in all my
gas jobs said to have zink way better oil pressure and none burn or use oil. And then
I bought a new F250 in 1975 (360) If you do not use Ford 300 oil your warranty will
be void? Far as I know Ford is not in the refinery business probably Shell with a Ford
stamp on it. So, I was already wrenching when all make flatheads were new. They
didn't have much of a warranty back then. Just about all were serviced from the local
gas station. Stations looked for oil deals, then oil was put in those pump tanks then
pumped in glass bottles. Old guys will remember that. Bottom line back then is you
never knew what came out of that bottle. And they ran and ran for 20 cents a quart.
Up on the lift watching my father with a coat hanger dragging crap out of the drain hole.
In high school I say about 65% cars teachers and seniors cars were flatheads and we
were well into the 352 390 days but not for the 55 to 65 dollar pay check. And they ran
and got you there like the great 1978 blizzard all I had was a 51 V8 with tire chains got
me there. People don't flinch using premium oil in their 2018 rice burner but use
Walmart stuff in a high buck rebuild. I don't get it. Just go to Model T forum on this site
and all say buy cheap oil at K Mart, ya gotta be kiddin.. No cheap stuff for my 100 yr
old baby...................
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:00 AM   #27
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Any oil is better than no oil. We used 20W/20 Texaco Havoline for the cooler months when I was a kid. We used the SAE 30 in the summer. It didn't matter if it was a flathead, a diesel tractor, or an OHV engine. Pop bought the stuff by the case for all the farm equipment.

I went to the Wally Word the other day and looked for 10-minutes for SAE 10W/40 mineral based motor oil and it was likely a re-refined brand. I have to go to the parts store to get a decent brand now days. I use Aeroshell brand in the helicopters. Some with the Lycoming additive (TCP) and some without. The stuff is getting expensive though. I use the W100 with no TCP in my R10 overdrive transmissions and all my old Harley transmissions.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:35 PM   #28
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Amazon and ebay are great places to buy oil. I buy the 5 quart bottles of Valvoline 10/40 for less than 25.00, delivered.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:56 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

I run it in my flathead, evo bobber and Shovelhead.

No issues in either and as for the old days when we were poor, if I couldn’t collect enough oil draining the quart cans out then it was the “best” looking oil coming out of the crankcase on an oil change because full of old oil is better the low on no oil, I’m just saying. It made sense to a 16 year old with shallow pockets.

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Old 05-27-2018, 06:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

I run any detergent 10W/30 or 10W/40 that Dollar General has on sale at the time (anywhere from $1.85 to $3.00 a quart). The last batch I bought was Peak brand 10W/30. I don't remember the service rating, but it did say "Not to be used in vehicles newer than 1985", which I found comforting.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

With all the money we have invested in our cars why would you want to gamble on putting a $10 bottle of zinc in at an oil change.
All the cam grinders that I know say cam failure is way up since they pulled the zinc out of the oil.
Roll the dice
But for my money I’ll drop a 10 and be safe


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Old 05-28-2018, 07:46 AM   #32
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Will it never end??????
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:25 AM   #33
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

You have that right DD931. There is plenty of ZDDP in any modern oil for a relatively stock flathead. If it's a fire breathin heathin then maybe more might be better. 1200 PPM of the stuff is the max that does any good. More is not better. 800 PPM is plenty for a flathead. Now, if you have a 500+ HP 427 Ford then knock yourself out on the ZDDP since that is what the additive was for.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:05 AM   #34
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Believe me, I get it. My post was offered with my tongue slightly in my cheek.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:15 PM   #35
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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With all the money we have invested in our cars why would you want to gamble on putting a $10 bottle of zinc in at an oil change.
All the cam grinders that I know say cam failure is way up since they pulled the zinc out of the oil.
Roll the dice
But for my money I’ll drop a 10 and be safe


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This relates to OHV flat tappet cams with high valve spring pressure and not to flatheads.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:11 PM   #36
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Default Rotella Oil Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
This relates to OHV flat tappet cams with high valve spring pressure and not to flatheads.


I spoke to Jerry at Schneider cams about cam wear and he assured me they have as much trouble with flatheads as overhead valve engines.
And I don’t feel like being a hero and experimenting for a $10 bottle so for me the zinc is in .
And it goes in every Engine I build or no warranty .
Everyone is entitled to there on opinion.


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Old 05-28-2018, 09:43 PM   #37
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I'd worry more about the lack of lead in our gasoline on valve seats. Bigger problem than zinc in oil.
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Old 05-28-2018, 11:03 PM   #38
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I'd worry more about the lack of lead in our gasoline on valve seats. Bigger problem than zinc in oil.

if you rebuild put harden seats in. but i wouldn't worry to much. run some mmo in the gas for upper engine lube. you could theoretically run a 50/1 oil at a higher mix rate also (300/1).
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:15 PM   #39
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Nobody talked about Rotella T5 15-40. Is thee zink in that stuff. Use it in farm tractors and dodge diesel. I am guessing that a flathead will be happy with it.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:31 PM   #40
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Most automotive motor oil has the API rating donut on the package somewhere if it's within specs. This is to certify that it meets the specs of that rating. If the rating is SJ or later, the ZDDP is reduced. SG was the last rating to have + or -1200 ppm of ZDDP but was done away with in 1993. The ILSAC classifications came out after the SG rating was obsoleted so they didn't exist before that. Obsoleted motor oils aren't required to have a rating so you can't tell if it has any or not. These types of oils are likely an unknown as to whether they have any beneficial additives or not. If you have an API rating of "SN" or ISLAC rating "GF-5" on the bottle or jug then you know there is only + or - 800 ppm of zink/phosphorus additive in there.

A flathead with high spring pressure and a real lumpy cam may need 1200-ppm of ZDDP but a stocker would be fine on 800-ppm.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:51 PM   #41
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Another thing is that the real tough enviromental rules only affect 10w30 and lower viscosity...the diesel oils isnīt affected in the same way by law.
The lowered amount of ZDDP would work much better if there wasnīt a ton of detergents added to the oil to keep catalytic converters and other eco systems clean.
The detergent destabilize bearing materials and wash away antiwear additives....all in the name of a greener planet...building and scrapping a car each 7th year seems like a good plan...or..
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:29 PM   #42
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The trucks are pee burners now days with selective catalytic reduction. The phosphoric content (ZDDP) isn't all that good for them either. Diesel truck engine oil is rated differently but it also has differences in the other additives that don't match up to gasoline engine auto motor oil quite the same. It will work OK but it's not the same as auto type motor oils.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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The trucks are pee burners now days with selective catalytic reduction. The phosphoric content (ZDDP) isn't all that good for them either. Diesel truck engine oil is rated differently but it also has differences in the other additives that don't match up to gasoline engine auto motor oil quite the same. It will work OK but it's not the same as auto type motor oils.
What is a pee burner? I'm lost on this. Rotella in my flatheads so far because most of my fleet was diesel a few years back, and I liked the zinc.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:54 PM   #44
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Modern diesel engines use an additive called DEF which is a urea based fluid. It helps remove the nitrogen oxide which is detrimental to cat converters and the air we breath.
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:46 AM   #45
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Modern diesel engines use an additive called DEF which is a urea based fluid. It helps remove the nitrogen oxide which is detrimental to cat converters and the air we breath.
Nitric oxides are not detrimental to catalytic converters... at least the ones I'm familiar with. (ones used in gasoline engines)

Gasoline catalytic converters: Nitrogen Oxides are produced from high compression. The requirement to reduce nitric oxides is the reason compression ratios were lowered in 1972. Nowadays, compression ratios are back up! Newer converters have a first stage that breaks down nitric oxides into nitrogen and oxygen.

The first converters were not capable of breaking down nitrogen oxides. The main role of these was to finish combusting unburned hydrocarbons (incompletely burned fuel)... and to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide. They relied on an air pump mounted to the front of the engine to supply the needed oxygen.

Modern converters THRIVE on nitric oxides, as THOSE are what provide the oxygen to finish burning unburned hydrocarbons and convert CO to CO2. These have allowed compression ratios and power to make a major comeback.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:36 AM   #46
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

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Well Stated. My short condensed response was incorrect as to being detrimental to cat converters.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:42 AM   #47
Jack E/NJ
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

Before and After use of DEF and new generation Catalytic Converters. 8^) Jack E/NJ
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:38 AM   #48
flatheadmurre
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

The diesels have several different Catalythic converters aiming for different things...
DOC(diesel oxidizing converter)-DPF(diesel particle filter)-Pea injector-SCR(selective catalytic reduction)-ASC(ammonium slip catalysts).
Just to give us several bumps on the exhaust that clogs up in slow city driving....
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:51 AM   #49
G.M.
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Default Re: Rotella Oil Question

You want to know about oil read this. G.M.
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