|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-16-2018, 01:20 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MN.
Posts: 325
|
Rotella Oil Question
I have been using Rotella T 15-40 for 10 years in my flat head 50 ford V8
Now they changed the label to Rotella T-4 15-40 and it says comparable to the previous Rotella T 15-40. My question is does it still have enough Zink in it? Any response is appreciated. I don't want to ruin my cam. What is the next best oil for my flat head? |
04-16-2018, 01:30 PM | #2 |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
For starters a flathead valve spring pressure is nowhere near high enough to require zinc type additives. Remember, there was never an issue in the original engines. These type of additives became prominent when OHV engines with higher valve spring pressure became the norm.
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
04-16-2018, 03:09 PM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bruno MN
Posts: 90
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
This is what I use...Its expensive, but worth it for me.
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf |
04-16-2018, 03:34 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,744
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
According to Shell's web page the Rotella T4 15W-40 is rated for higher temperatures than the old Rotella T. That is the only difference I could find.
|
04-16-2018, 03:47 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,579
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
|
04-16-2018, 03:59 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 1,622
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
04-16-2018, 04:02 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,744
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
|
04-16-2018, 05:54 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SPEEDWAY INDIANA
Posts: 4,148
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Rotella all the way.......
|
04-16-2018, 08:20 PM | #9 |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Flatheads run cooler than just about any engine around! The overheat condition with them has to do with them having a low operation temp to begin with and a non-pressurized coolant system. Even the later flatheads with low pressure systems are far below modern engines in operating temps.
Temps below even 212 are considered overheating in a flathead. Most engines can run well above 212. From a Hot Rod mag article: "Cold engine oil causes excessive frictional drag on the bearings and cylinder walls. A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees. Even on a short-duration, drag-only combo where oil is frequently changed, I would not want to routinely see under-200-degree oil temps." Last edited by JSeery; 04-16-2018 at 08:26 PM. |
04-16-2018, 11:19 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
And still the cam survived. So your cam will survive just fine on any modern oil, which still has some zinc in it. |
|
04-16-2018, 11:47 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 4,541
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
re-refined oil...sorry for the drift, but in my youth i worked at warden oil in mpls. we took in drain oil, and ran it thru a long "press" they called it. it was, about 15 feet long, made up of 1 inch thick 4'x4' steel frames with canvas covers. they would mix some kinda clay in with the oil, mix and heat it up and pump it thru the press. about once an hour we would slide all the frames apart and scrape off the gook from the canvas and go again. the oil that came out was golden yellow like new. not sure what they did with the gook, and needless to say the epa shut it down in the 80's. all the holiday stations around the midwest sold it as the "house' brand
|
04-17-2018, 06:04 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MN.
Posts: 325
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Thanks guys for the help I will keep running Rotella 15 40 was just checking Thanks again Rog
|
04-17-2018, 06:44 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Marana Arizona
Posts: 1,771
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Yeah, as a teen I remember buying that 10 cent a quart re-refined oil at the Powerene Station in South Gate, California. They would even give you a gaudy glass tumbler or a small box of laundry detergent with a 10 gallon or more fill up. Gas was 24.9 cents a gallon.
Glad my flathead didn't know I was cheap (poor) or it may have needed special counseling. |
04-17-2018, 11:05 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
|
04-17-2018, 11:21 AM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Oakhurst, CA
Posts: 140
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
|
|
04-17-2018, 12:29 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Marana Arizona
Posts: 1,771
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Oakhurst, Firestone Bl @ Otis caddy corner from the origional SG Jr High School and across the street from Lucky Boys hamburger stand
|
04-17-2018, 06:01 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Oakhurst, CA
Posts: 140
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I remember that station very well. It was one of the largest around as I recall. We lived on Kaufman between Tweedy and Abbot Rd. Had a 31 coupe. Drove it in the neighborhood @ 14 years old. Went down Firestone across Alameda for all the wrecking yards. Never got a ticket in South Gate. If you lived there the cops were great. Used to go down Tweedy to Atlantic in Lynwood and watch crazy guys in a custom car shop. (George Barris, Dean Jefferies) Gaylords Upholstery was near South Gate Park. Clock Drive in, Harvey's broiler. Great times!
|
04-17-2018, 08:01 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midland Park, NJ
Posts: 3,965
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
With the new configuration of Rotella, Ford specifies that it not be used in their diesels. In fact, I think they will void the warranty if it's used.
__________________
48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria |
04-17-2018, 09:28 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 541
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
|
04-17-2018, 10:01 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bonita, CA
Posts: 1,374
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I run it in my Cummins powered motorhome. But not in the flatheads. Too much detergent. Run diesel oil in diesels.
Last edited by philipswanson; 05-19-2018 at 10:21 PM. |
04-18-2018, 03:24 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,744
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I'm going to run it in my 2017 Ram with a Cummins and my flatheads.....oh NOOOOO!
|
04-18-2018, 03:46 PM | #22 |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I can only guess at the sleepless nights over oil!
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
05-19-2018, 08:57 PM | #23 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 11
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Every motor (engine) around my house uses Rotella. Lawn mower, tractor, cars, trucks. Never a problem.
|
05-19-2018, 09:23 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 7,053
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I just bought some oil at fleet farm, it's Mobil super. $16 for 5qts of 10w-30. $12 dollar rebate on returning it full with your used oil. Did I mess up? I will change it again. Maybe more important in a new vehicle. My 06 f150 says on the gas cap only use BP gas, can't win.
Maybe a mn thing but... as I bought a gallon of stain and they charged me a $1 painting fee here, but the state recycles for free. Win some loose some I guess. .. Last edited by Tinker; 05-19-2018 at 09:39 PM. |
05-20-2018, 06:51 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Eastcoast
Posts: 859
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
|
05-20-2018, 08:01 AM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dighton, Mass
Posts: 1,225
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
gas jobs said to have zink way better oil pressure and none burn or use oil. And then I bought a new F250 in 1975 (360) If you do not use Ford 300 oil your warranty will be void? Far as I know Ford is not in the refinery business probably Shell with a Ford stamp on it. So, I was already wrenching when all make flatheads were new. They didn't have much of a warranty back then. Just about all were serviced from the local gas station. Stations looked for oil deals, then oil was put in those pump tanks then pumped in glass bottles. Old guys will remember that. Bottom line back then is you never knew what came out of that bottle. And they ran and ran for 20 cents a quart. Up on the lift watching my father with a coat hanger dragging crap out of the drain hole. In high school I say about 65% cars teachers and seniors cars were flatheads and we were well into the 352 390 days but not for the 55 to 65 dollar pay check. And they ran and got you there like the great 1978 blizzard all I had was a 51 V8 with tire chains got me there. People don't flinch using premium oil in their 2018 rice burner but use Walmart stuff in a high buck rebuild. I don't get it. Just go to Model T forum on this site and all say buy cheap oil at K Mart, ya gotta be kiddin.. No cheap stuff for my 100 yr old baby................... |
05-20-2018, 10:00 AM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Any oil is better than no oil. We used 20W/20 Texaco Havoline for the cooler months when I was a kid. We used the SAE 30 in the summer. It didn't matter if it was a flathead, a diesel tractor, or an OHV engine. Pop bought the stuff by the case for all the farm equipment.
I went to the Wally Word the other day and looked for 10-minutes for SAE 10W/40 mineral based motor oil and it was likely a re-refined brand. I have to go to the parts store to get a decent brand now days. I use Aeroshell brand in the helicopters. Some with the Lycoming additive (TCP) and some without. The stuff is getting expensive though. I use the W100 with no TCP in my R10 overdrive transmissions and all my old Harley transmissions. |
05-20-2018, 08:35 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midland Park, NJ
Posts: 3,965
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Amazon and ebay are great places to buy oil. I buy the 5 quart bottles of Valvoline 10/40 for less than 25.00, delivered.
__________________
48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria |
05-27-2018, 05:56 PM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Windsor Locks, CT.
Posts: 244
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I run it in my flathead, evo bobber and Shovelhead.
No issues in either and as for the old days when we were poor, if I couldn’t collect enough oil draining the quart cans out then it was the “best” looking oil coming out of the crankcase on an oil change because full of old oil is better the low on no oil, I’m just saying. It made sense to a 16 year old with shallow pockets. Cliff Ramsdell Last edited by Cliff Ramsdell; 05-27-2018 at 08:41 PM. |
05-27-2018, 06:20 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,259
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I run any detergent 10W/30 or 10W/40 that Dollar General has on sale at the time (anywhere from $1.85 to $3.00 a quart). The last batch I bought was Peak brand 10W/30. I don't remember the service rating, but it did say "Not to be used in vehicles newer than 1985", which I found comforting.
|
05-28-2018, 07:40 AM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bloomfield,ny
Posts: 130
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
With all the money we have invested in our cars why would you want to gamble on putting a $10 bottle of zinc in at an oil change.
All the cam grinders that I know say cam failure is way up since they pulled the zinc out of the oil. Roll the dice But for my money Ill drop a 10 and be safe Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
05-28-2018, 07:46 AM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PA Poconos
Posts: 723
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Will it never end??????
|
05-28-2018, 09:25 AM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
You have that right DD931. There is plenty of ZDDP in any modern oil for a relatively stock flathead. If it's a fire breathin heathin then maybe more might be better. 1200 PPM of the stuff is the max that does any good. More is not better. 800 PPM is plenty for a flathead. Now, if you have a 500+ HP 427 Ford then knock yourself out on the ZDDP since that is what the additive was for.
|
05-28-2018, 10:05 AM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,259
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Believe me, I get it. My post was offered with my tongue slightly in my cheek.
|
05-28-2018, 06:15 PM | #35 | |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
|
|
05-28-2018, 08:11 PM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bloomfield,ny
Posts: 130
|
Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
I spoke to Jerry at Schneider cams about cam wear and he assured me they have as much trouble with flatheads as overhead valve engines. And I dont feel like being a hero and experimenting for a $10 bottle so for me the zinc is in . And it goes in every Engine I build or no warranty . Everyone is entitled to there on opinion. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
|
05-28-2018, 09:43 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bonita, CA
Posts: 1,374
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
I'd worry more about the lack of lead in our gasoline on valve seats. Bigger problem than zinc in oil.
|
05-28-2018, 11:03 PM | #38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 7,053
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
if you rebuild put harden seats in. but i wouldn't worry to much. run some mmo in the gas for upper engine lube. you could theoretically run a 50/1 oil at a higher mix rate also (300/1). |
|
11-28-2018, 12:15 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Payette, ID
Posts: 935
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Nobody talked about Rotella T5 15-40. Is thee zink in that stuff. Use it in farm tractors and dodge diesel. I am guessing that a flathead will be happy with it.
|
11-28-2018, 01:31 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Most automotive motor oil has the API rating donut on the package somewhere if it's within specs. This is to certify that it meets the specs of that rating. If the rating is SJ or later, the ZDDP is reduced. SG was the last rating to have + or -1200 ppm of ZDDP but was done away with in 1993. The ILSAC classifications came out after the SG rating was obsoleted so they didn't exist before that. Obsoleted motor oils aren't required to have a rating so you can't tell if it has any or not. These types of oils are likely an unknown as to whether they have any beneficial additives or not. If you have an API rating of "SN" or ISLAC rating "GF-5" on the bottle or jug then you know there is only + or - 800 ppm of zink/phosphorus additive in there.
A flathead with high spring pressure and a real lumpy cam may need 1200-ppm of ZDDP but a stocker would be fine on 800-ppm. |
11-28-2018, 01:51 PM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,045
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Another thing is that the real tough enviromental rules only affect 10w30 and lower viscosity...the diesel oils isnīt affected in the same way by law.
The lowered amount of ZDDP would work much better if there wasnīt a ton of detergents added to the oil to keep catalytic converters and other eco systems clean. The detergent destabilize bearing materials and wash away antiwear additives....all in the name of a greener planet...building and scrapping a car each 7th year seems like a good plan...or.. |
11-28-2018, 07:29 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
The trucks are pee burners now days with selective catalytic reduction. The phosphoric content (ZDDP) isn't all that good for them either. Diesel truck engine oil is rated differently but it also has differences in the other additives that don't match up to gasoline engine auto motor oil quite the same. It will work OK but it's not the same as auto type motor oils.
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
11-28-2018, 09:28 PM | #43 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,844
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
|
11-28-2018, 09:54 PM | #44 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 866
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Modern diesel engines use an additive called DEF which is a urea based fluid. It helps remove the nitrogen oxide which is detrimental to cat converters and the air we breath.
|
11-29-2018, 08:46 AM | #45 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Daytona Beach, Fl & Spencer, W. Va,
Posts: 4,442
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Quote:
Gasoline catalytic converters: Nitrogen Oxides are produced from high compression. The requirement to reduce nitric oxides is the reason compression ratios were lowered in 1972. Nowadays, compression ratios are back up! Newer converters have a first stage that breaks down nitric oxides into nitrogen and oxygen. The first converters were not capable of breaking down nitrogen oxides. The main role of these was to finish combusting unburned hydrocarbons (incompletely burned fuel)... and to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide. They relied on an air pump mounted to the front of the engine to supply the needed oxygen. Modern converters THRIVE on nitric oxides, as THOSE are what provide the oxygen to finish burning unburned hydrocarbons and convert CO to CO2. These have allowed compression ratios and power to make a major comeback.
__________________
Mike Jr. here. I get on here every few months to check messages, and look through his almost 500 saved messages for information on the '29 and '34 I still have. A lot of very nice people on here. He truly enjoyed Ford Barn. Last edited by FL&WVMIKE; 11-29-2018 at 12:04 PM. |
|
11-29-2018, 09:36 AM | #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 866
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
11-29-2018, 09:42 AM | #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,171
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
Before and After use of DEF and new generation Catalytic Converters. 8^) Jack E/NJ
|
11-29-2018, 10:38 AM | #48 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,045
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
The diesels have several different Catalythic converters aiming for different things...
DOC(diesel oxidizing converter)-DPF(diesel particle filter)-Pea injector-SCR(selective catalytic reduction)-ASC(ammonium slip catalysts). Just to give us several bumps on the exhaust that clogs up in slow city driving.... |
11-30-2018, 07:51 AM | #49 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida and Penna.
Posts: 4,471
|
Re: Rotella Oil Question
You want to know about oil read this. G.M.
__________________
www.fordcollector.com |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|