32 Ford Tudor door alignment

[Deucenut]

I am trying to better align the doors on my 32 ford tudor sedan. I bought new hinge pins as I could see the door would drop when I opened it and there was movement in the hinge. New hinge pins didn't help at all. Also, I noticed the beltline was not matched up at the front of the door with the cowl. How do I adjust the door so the belt line matches up at the cowl? Second, if new hinge pins did not stop the movement at the hinge, does that mean the hinges are just worn out? Or is there another reason? Thanks in advance for the help.

[DavidG]

Misalignment at the cowl normally would not be the result of hinge pin wear, but rather wear on the hinge wear surfaces. Further, if the hinge is loose, that's a whole different issue. Is the hinge looseness in the door side of the hinge or the cowl side or both?

[Deucenut]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Misalignment at the cowl normally would not be the result of hinge pin wear, but rather wear on the hinge wear surfaces. Further, if the hinge is loose, that's a whole different issue. Is the hinge looseness in the door side of the hinge or the cowl side or both?

The hinge itself is not loose. It is tight to both the door and the A pillar. But when I put new hinge pins in, you can see the two hinge pieces moving as I lift the door up and down at the rear. Basically, the front of the door has to go up by about an eighth to 3/16 of an inch. I can't imagine the top of the hinge surface would be worn out that much. But I think the hinge pin hole is worn out to the point that new hinge pins don't solve the problem.

[Krylon32]

I'm not an expert like David but I've done some deuce 2 doors and on several we had to work the hinges a little and install oversize hinge pins. I guess I've never seen 3/16 door sag at the front. I remember on one we had to slightly build up the top[ of the male hinge plus the over size pins. Don't forget once you get the front looking good you can raise the rear slightly by tightening the cowl pinch bolt.

[DavidG]

How is the fit of the top of the door relative to the opening in the body? Presumably the 3/16" should show up in the gap there, at least at the front and narrowing toward the back of the top of the door.

[rotorwrench]

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Hinge pins are usually held fast in one of the hinge halves. A person can ream and bush the worn half but it depends on the size of the hinge points and how far it will have to be oversized to get the bushings in there. It can be a lot of work and sometimes the parts are too far gone or too thin to be able to do such a repair.

[Deucenut]

This is what the doors look like at the front. There is a gap at the top, but not as much as at the cowl, although it’s close.

[FlatheadTed]

Over time as these body's settled on the chassis ,some misalignment happens s theres several fix's, one as well as Krylon ,you pack the B pillar between the body and frame this will lift it at the B and in turn the front at the catch .First determine were the ware is ,Check that the alignment rear door edge to B pillar Gap is consistent top to bottom,(As has been suggested ) A common method on more modern cars was to place a block of wood between the hinge and close it a little but I wouldn't recommend that in your case ,in some cases you can pack ,wedge ,or bend the hinge ,but bending may take experienced body man and a special tool so you don't stress the mounting ,

[Deucenut]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

Over time as these body's settled on the chassis ,some misalignment happens s theres several fix's, one as well as Krylon ,you pack the B pillar between the body and frame this will lift it at the B and in turn the front at the catch .First determine were the ware is ,Check that the alignment rear door edge to B pillar Gap is consistent top to bottom,(As has been suggested ) A common method on more modern cars was to place a block of wood between the hinge and close it a little but I wouldn't recommend that in your case ,in some cases you can pack ,wedge ,or bend the hinge ,but bending may take experienced body man and a special tool so you don't stress the mounting ,

I agree, I don't want to bend the hinge...yet. I looked at the pinch bolt and it was actually a little loose, so tightening that will help the rear of the door. But I am still at a loss as to how to have the entire front of the door go up? The tops of the hinges do not show a lot of wear, none at all really. So I don't understand why the passenger door is so far down.


If I loosen the bolts that hold the hinge to the A pillar and the door, are they slotted to allow up/down movement of the front of the door?

[DavidG]

No, they are not slotted, but they are somewhat oversize, hence the use of countersunk washers (unless it is a super-early body which had smaller holes in the pillar and no countersunk washers). However, they are not oversized enough to provide for a 3/16" adjustment. What is a bit surprising is that it is your passenger side door, which normally would have far fewer openings and closings than the other door and therefore less wear on the hinges and hinge pins. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the body is a mis-build. Yours would not be the first that I've encountered.

[deuce_roadster]

If it were me, I would rebuild the hinges, make sure the body is properly bolted to the frame, cut the welds where the hinge attaches to the door and do what you have to to move the door up and fit it to the hole and reweld the hinge to the door. I think there is a relief where the hinge goes to the jamb part of the door so if there isn't room to move the door up enough, you may have to massage that. IF it was misfit from the factory, there should be room to move the door up before rewelding. I am comfortable doing this kind of work as my avatar roadster required me hammer welding about 10" of metal all the way around it, (some pictures in my 32 album) but there are probably good body people near you that could help with this. As my roadster was clear apart, I fit the body to the repaired doors, in other words, made the "hole" fit the door. You shouldn't have to do that unless the body had been apart in the past or had some severe damage fixed. Good luck.

P.S. That isn't (wasn't) a RH drive car is it.

[deuce lover]

What I did with a friend on a '35 roadster I once had was remove the hinges from the A pillar(they are held in with screws like your '32 sedan),weld up the holes(on the hinge plate) then redrilled them to align with the door fittment to the cowl..Lots of trial and error but it worked

[Deucenut]

No it is a LH drive car. The issue with doing major welding etc is that it is an older car with a decent paint job that I am trying to keep looking nice so I don't want to start taking paint off etc. I was considering purchasing a new pair of hinges from UPAC and wondered if that would help. But I have this bad feeling that it won't and more involved surgery is required. What I am, at this point, really trying to do is get the door to close easier as you pretty much have to slam it right now and my wife has trouble closing it from inside the car. The groove in the dovetail (male and female) is fairly pronounced. I purchased new dovetails but didn't want to install them until I got the alignment issue repaired since the door will just wreck the new dovetails.

[FlatheadTed]

Sorry My instructions were for a rear hinged door ,you will need to do as the others have suggested ,try and loosen of the door jam screws ,spay some wD40 on the threads in behind the A pillar cover .Remove the paint in the slots use a large screw driver or with caution a impact screw driver ,if you get them loose place a l block of wood under the door and jack it up .

[FlatheadTed]

You can cut the hinge on the door part then lift up the door and re weld it ( or lower the piece you cut) this can be done with a tig using a metal shield with minimum damage, I haven't done this but have heard of it being very successful .

[alchemy]

If you have gaps between the two halves of the hinge, you need to fix those first. Maybe a shim/washer can be installed on top of the body half and not ruin the paint?

If that is not were the droop is coming from, it sounds like you are going to have to ruin some paint. Maybe either weld up the holes in the body and drill them 3/16" higher, or weld up the threaded holes in the hinge and drill/tap them 3/16" lower. If doing this welding, don't use a MIG as the weld will be really hard and difficult to get a smooth hole drilled/tapped. Use a soft weld from a TIG.

Once the front side of the door is fitting nice, I'd bet any droop at the back edge could be adjusted out with shims under the subframe-to-frame bolts in the area of the A pillar and cowl.

A little dab'll do ya. Sneak up on it.

[Deucenut]

I found the right side pinch bolt was loose. So I tightened it up and tried to make some adjustments. It brought the rear of the door up a little bit. I think I’ll stop there until I can figure out what to do about the front of the door. I think I’ll also take the latch apart, clean and lubricate it. That might help with the closing of the door since the latch is a bit sticky.

[Krylon32]

I know it's a crutch but there is a company that makes adjustable male dovetails for the rear of the door. I always liked to get my doors fitting without needing the dovetail. Your picture of your front vertical gap doesn't look bad. I measured the door gap on my delivery and it's a consistent 1/8 th. inch all around.

[1931 flamingo]

I wonder from the factory how "close" the fit was.??
Paul in CT

[F1 MIKE]

Off set Dove Tails came from the Factory. From Ford or the body builder . A and L Parts had them at one time.

[rotorwrench]

Ford was particular about fit and finish. There is a lot of water under the bridge since that era. Door replacement or hinge replacement could affect fit to a small degree but that is a fair amount of misalignment.

I would see where the rest of the door gaps are on top & bottom to see if they were affected the same amount. If they are then try the adjustment of hinges on the A pillar first to see how much it can be affected. Since there are only two hinges it's better than a three hinge door for repairs or modifications.

Hinges can be worn on the pin contact surface and the thrust surface that bears the weight of the door. If both are worn, they should be repaired to see if that will get the door back to alignment. Opening up the A pillar screw holes on the hinge half that attaches there might be possible to a certain degree but the screws may not keep it in position very long. The hinge half should be removable so that the door will not be affected by repairs whether it is cut and rewelded or holes welded up & redrilled. Make the repairs or mods needed, paint the hinge half, & reinstall with a new pin.

[john stimac]

Just as a point of interest, here's a guy on the line-check out his tools, I see a oil can, hammer, punch, and a block of wood on the running board.

[Krylon32]

See that little tool he's using in his right hand to check door gaps?

[Ronnieroadster]

I have had a similar alignment issue with Deuce doors. Since the hinge is attached permanently to the door the way i went about it was to modify the removable section of the hinge from the door jamb. I usual find the jamb side of the hinge is worn on the top causing the sage. By adding a round shim bushing to the top of the jamb hinge held in place by the pin I can now move the door upward to help the belt line alignment. If needed I remove material from the bottom of the hinge on the jamb this will allow the door to be moved upward.
Ronnieroadster

[Deucenut]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

See that little tool he's using in his right hand to check door gaps?

Ya, but I guess most things 88 years old sag a little!

[Deucenut]

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Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

I have had a similar alignment issue with Deuce doors. Since the hinge is attached permanently to the door the way i went about it was to modify the removable section of the hinge from the door jamb. I usual find the jamb side of the hinge is worn on the top causing the sage. By adding a round shim bushing to the top of the jamb hinge held in place by the pin I can now move the door upward to help the belt line alignment. If needed I remove material from the bottom of the hinge on the jamb this will allow the door to be moved upward.
Ronnieroadster

So you are referring to the part of the hinge that attaches to the body and placing a bushing on the top of it? That could work in my case, however the splines on the hinge pin would not be in contact with anything. Do those splines do anything special or just keep the pin firmly attached and stop it from moving up?

[DavidG]

The uppermost top of the hinge (which is on the door side of the hinge) is not where he's recommending you place a bushing, but rather on top of the hinge portion on the cowl. The pin would still insert into the uppermost top of the hinge as original and the splines engaged as original.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by DavidG

The uppermost top of the hinge (which is on the door side of the hinge) is not where he's recommending you place a bushing, but rather on top of the hinge portion on the cowl. The pin would still insert into the uppermost top of the hinge as original and the splines engaged as original.

David is correct the bushing is placed on top of the cowl portion of the hinge. The pin splines will still be held in the door portion of the hinge.

[Deucenut]

I have been adjusting the rear of the door with the pinch bolt on the cowl. Can this bolt be tightened up too much? I don't want to cause stress in another area. Also, do the hinge pin splines just stop the pin from coming out or serve another purpose? Sorry for the dumb questions and thanks to everyone who has offered up advice/help!!

[DavidG]

As a fairly late running change during the '32 model year a reinforcement was added to the inside of the cowl at the base of the A pillars for the then-stated reason to prevent stress cracks developing at the base of the A pillars which were evidently showing up on some vehicles produced earlier in the model year. The affected vehicles were all closed cars, convertible sedans, closed truck cabs, and panel bodies.


That suggests that unless you have a late Tudor body with the reinforcements welded in place then you may well run a risk of damage resulting from overdoing your tightening showing up down the road.


The hinge pin splines hold the pins in place, both to prevent their working their way loose and to prevent them from turning.

[Deucenut]

Thanks for the reply DavidG...I appreciate it. I will look for the reinforcement.

[DavidG]

The attached photo will give you an idea of what to look for.

[alchemy]

I'm working on a 5-window right now that doesn't have that doubler plate shown in David's pic. There are cracks on each side.

I don't have the sag problem the OP has, but I had plenty of other alignment problems. My project is bare metal and I can't imagine trying to fix any of these problems on a finished, painted car.

I also have a very early production tudor sedan that doesn't have the doubler, but it doesn't have any cracks. Maybe it just lead an easier life.