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Old 10-20-2019, 12:44 AM   #21
updraught
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

The ball should slip in. Too much of the hole is covered. Maybe the repo tie rod end isn't deep enough?
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:15 AM   #22
Chad Marchees
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Yeah, I had that thought too. Especially because the old cup and spring in the new housing produced the same result.

I don't know if I'll get to play with it today, But thinking I am going to take the one good original end I have and clean it real good and start measuring things with a micrometer to see.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:25 PM   #23
Brian T
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Looks to me that updraught wins the prize, maybe the grease fitting or hole not bored deep enough.
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:42 PM   #24
Chad Marchees
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

OK, I cleaned the new and old tie rod and internals and and got to measuring.


Spring height

Original .960" new 1.0"


Depth from end of tie rod to machined spring seat

Original 2.445" new 2.364"


Depth of end of tie rod to flat edge of spring cup

Original 1.193" new 1.110"


If you take into account the the .040" height loss from the original spring, the depth becomes 1.153 minus the 1.110, equals a .043" difference.....hardly should seem like that should hold me up from getting this on.


On the other hand, there is a ~.080" difference in the machined depth of the seat.


The ball opening to the end of the tie rod is the same on both....but I believe the original is worn slightly. both spring cups measure out the same as well.




So what am I doing wrong? Do you just place it on top of the ball and smack it on with a rubber mallet or dead blow?, because I did that. Do you have to angle it a certain way to get it to go on easier? I mean it seams pretty ridiculous I am having such an issue with this.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Even tho it doesn't look much, my guess is that the old one will go on and the new one won't. The reason being, that with the new one you are pushing against the flat horizontal part of the ball. The cup edge needs to be pressing on the vertical part of the ball to force the cup back against the spring for the ball to go in.

The backing plates are probably in the way, but if you can take out the screw plug and insert a brass drift or something and hit it while pushing the ball in, it might do it. A lot of people now use the nylon type cups that might be easier too.
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:38 AM   #26
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Please correct me if I am wrong. Is there a small concave groove on the cups that should be facing the opening so the ball can slide in ? Maybe the repro parts don't have that feature. Please see updraught's post # 21
PS: I have the same setup on my 59 Corvette.

Last edited by jimvette59; 10-21-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:21 AM   #27
Dave in MD
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Chad,
You said you replaced the balls on the steering arms. The originals were 1 inch in diameter. What size are the new balls?
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:44 PM   #28
Chad Marchees
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Hello all. To answer a few above questions.


The new balls are sized at .990" as measured with digital calipers. They might be 1" if I broke out the micrometer...but I didn't.


Yes, the ball seat is concaved, as is the plug to accept the ball.


Updraught, there are no backing plates on, or even drums, just a bare spindle and hub.


I tried various angles on the tie rod end to get it on while hitting it with a deadblow hammer. No go. Its as if the cup is being pushed out to far by the spring.


Even though I have said several times the grease fitting was not interfering, I removed it to appease the masses trying to help. The spring has been verified as sitting on the machined surface.


I have talked to Snyders, and they have never heard of the issue but are trying to also work with me on it---I can't ask for anymore than that. Even though I am not totally ruling out the repo parts, I do believe the slight variations in measurements from originals are stacking up, unfortunately against me.



Larry posted and was kind enough to have a phone conversation last night with me and we measured various points together. I am defiantly tight on a few areas with the new parts.


Also as suggested by someone else, I did order the internals from Bratton's to see if there is a difference.



I'll get it figured out sooner or later....even though the solution may not be what I really want. Finding good original ends that don't cost an arm and a leg don't seem to be that easy...unless someone has a set and wants to help.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Maybe it is just my old eyes but the hole in the bottom tie rod end in post 24 seems to be larger than the upper one...???


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Old 10-21-2019, 07:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Marchees View Post
Hello all. To answer a few above questions.


The new balls are sized at .990" as measured with digital calipers. They might be 1" if I broke out the micrometer...but I didn't.


Yes, the ball seat is concaved, as is the plug to accept the ball.


Updraught, there are no backing plates on, or even drums, just a bare spindle and hub.


I tried various angles on the tie rod end to get it on while hitting it with a deadblow hammer. No go. Its as if the cup is being pushed out to far by the spring.


Even though I have said several times the grease fitting was not interfering, I removed it to appease the masses trying to help. The spring has been verified as sitting on the machined surface.


I have talked to Snyders, and they have never heard of the issue but are trying to also work with me on it---I can't ask for anymore than that. Even though I am not totally ruling out the repo parts, I do believe the slight variations in measurements from originals are stacking up, unfortunately against me.



Larry posted and was kind enough to have a phone conversation last night with me and we measured various points together. I am defiantly tight on a few areas with the new parts.


Also as suggested by someone else, I did order the internals from Bratton's to see if there is a difference.



I'll get it figured out sooner or later....even though the solution may not be what I really want. Finding good original ends that don't cost an arm and a leg don't seem to be that easy...unless someone has a set and wants to help.
Have you tried Bert's for originals (no internals)?
You will have to clean them up but they may have some ready to go.
Note - Grease fitting location(front/rear)varies by year but no functional difference.

Last edited by dmaxweb; 10-22-2019 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:12 PM   #31
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

My eyes were seeing the same thing a Terry O. Have you tried to slip the new tie rod ends over the spindle balls without the spring and cup installed to be sure the hold is large enough? Just an easy thing tocheck.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:15 AM   #32
Chad Marchees
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Yes I have. It fits fine.
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:23 PM   #33
Chad Marchees
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Problem solved. Don and Joe at Snyder's took the time to look at my pics and talk to me about it. They sent me two new tie rod ends. My original shipment of ends were made / machined wrong in a couple areas that was really evident once I had them to compare in hand.


I assembled them tonight, gave a quick light hit with a dead blow hammer and they snapped right into place. So happy I was able to get this worked out, and kudo's to Snyder's for helping me even though over a year passed since I bought them originally.



Thank You for all that helped and responded, special thanks to Larry who also went out of his way to call me personally. I was starting to think I was going nuts trying to get these other ones to work. Life is good again.

Last edited by Chad Marchees; 10-29-2019 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Wow, that is great news. Great customer service and caring shown by Snyders.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Great ending - thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:00 AM   #36
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

This is nothing againt any of the other vendors because I don't have much experience with them BUT,,, Snyders is a model business for any business.

Chad in case you haven't put everything back together, it would be a great time to do the pitman arm shortening. I haven't done this but have read it greatly improves the turning of the steering wheel, makes it easier to turn.
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Old 10-27-2019, 12:47 PM   #37
J Franklin
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

The short pitman arm didn't seem worth it to me, I couldn't tell any difference except a bigger turning radius.
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: Help! Tie rod end install

Glad you responded. You may have saved me the effort.

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The short pitman arm didn't seem worth it to me, I couldn't tell any difference except a bigger turning radius.
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