Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model T (1909-1927)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2021, 10:33 AM   #1
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

i have Wheels Across the Desert by A. Goudie and Libyan Sands by R.A. Bagnold books for initial research (scale model building) but wondered if there was more information available. also have bookmarked some YouTube videos.

if anyone could suggest resources for vehicle modifications, it would be appreciated.

thanks
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2021, 01:02 PM   #2
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,946
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

A little more detailed post from you might enlighten us to what you wish to accomplish. Words here are free to use.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-19-2021, 07:05 PM   #3
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

i wish to accomplish riches beyond imagination and world peace.

in the meantime, i shall content myself with building scale models as noted in my initial post.
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2021, 09:36 PM   #4
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,946
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

I don't know what you are after for your project, but I did meet the fellow that was doing the scale modeling for the Three Mile Island meltdown disaster.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2021, 09:46 AM   #5
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

This is a pretty broad subject since there are several eras of vehicles going on with this request. I have some knowledge of the North African campaigns just prior and during the WWII era but not so much back in the WWI or interwar period.

Needless to say, the rubber tire technology was also in it's infancy. My grandfathers first tractors had steel lugs on steel rims just to plow a field. Tractor tires didn't start showing up till the 1930s. I'm sure its the same for desert sand going vehicles. They even had to half track cars but many were developed for snow conditions and not the desert. A person would have to do research for stuff like this. The only story I remember of the first all terrain motor vehicles was the Citroen Golden Scarab half track set up used by Georges-Marie Harrdt and Louis Aldouin-Dubreuil. Here is a link
https://petrolicious.com/articles/ci...-100-years-ago

There was also a treck down the silk road from Beirut, Lebanon to Beijing, China that was very interesting.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2021, 03:37 PM   #6
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
oh brother; another dogleg turn!

i had never seen the Citroen so thank you for the link to the article & pictures. that one will go into the "further down the list" projects. of immediate curiosity is the power plant hiding behind that adorable radiator shell. i'll definitely be digging into that sooner than later.

thanks again
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2021, 06:33 PM   #7
rich b
Senior Member
 
rich b's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,813
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

Wondering what "light patrol vehicles" were, caused me to spend a little time reading history and saving a couple pictures.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ford_Model_T_1.jpg (51.1 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg Ford_Model_T_2.jpg (33.6 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg Ford_Model_T_3.jpg (29.6 KB, 108 views)
rich b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 12:46 AM   #8
mercman from oz
Senior Member
 
mercman from oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 10,289
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles






Photos compliments of rich b
mercman from oz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 06:36 AM   #9
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

now that i've been able to look at several web links for these cars, interestingly enough none that i have seen show mechanical reinforcement for the front end.
i understand they were meant to be the mosquitos in the dark, striking and getting away with swiftness and light, but the front axle components and radiator seem very vulnerable.

Q: would a "catch-can" have been mechanically feasible for the Model T cooling system?

thanks
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 10:23 AM   #10
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

The model T didn't have a water pump like the later new model A. The circulation was by convection and thermosyphon. Back in the day, folks just carried extra water to fill them back up after they boiled enough water away. The model T was not an ideal vehicle for hot climate operations. Ford started producing the model TT trucks in 1917 just before WWI. Anything made before that was more experimental in nature or by field expedience in Europe after the war started.

Patton's first mechanized cavalry unit used Dodge Brothers cars during search for Pancho Villa in 1916 Mexico. The US Army used Class B Liberty trucks during WWI and many ended up surplus after the war since not all that many made it to France. Model Ts were used a lot for ambulance duty during the war. A lot of vehicles used in Africa during the interwar period were from Europe. I had a great Uncle that had a game capture company in Kenya before WWII and he used Fords that were put together in South Africa. He didn't go into the Sahara. Most folks that ventured there were either natives on camel or they were explorers looking for lost civilizations or legendary treasures. The oil exploration of the Palaeozoic Basin didn't begin until the early 1950s. By that time, the Italians and Germans had already criss-crossed the regions followed by the Britsh and Americans during the battles of the North African campaign of WWII.

Early history had explorations by Alexander the Great and the Egyptians & Carthaginians all likely roamed there for one reason or another. Mostly for mineral resources I'm sure.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-22-2021 at 10:42 AM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 02:46 PM   #11
15max
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 327
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

This may be of interest:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1447784340
15max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 04:31 PM   #12
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

I'll Say it is; thanks, Max!
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 04:40 PM   #13
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
The model T didn't have a water pump ...
earlier today i began reading index references (have yet to start the book "proper") from Wheels Across the Desert and the author calls out that very thing (pg. #118).

evidently one innovative traveler in 1927 modified the radiator cap to a feed pipe entering a 2 gallon tank mounted on the running board. this gave the stream from overheat to condense, and along with the added cooling, greater range between stops for the vehicle.
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 10:11 AM   #14
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

The Australian 1st Light Patrol unit was formed in 1916 when they were issued automobiles that were available to them at the time which were ironically mostly of German origin. They were sent to North Africa to deal with the Senussi arabs who took the axis side due to their hate of the French & Italian imperialists and their siding with the allied forces. The LCP started using the model Ts after the older cars in the unit were worn out by the terrible desert conditions. They were redeployed to Palestine in 1917. They started out with only three patrol vehicle which were promptly worn out. After that, they received six modified Ford patrol vehicles. After the move to Palestine, they likely used what ever was available to them there. The British Commonwealth forces even used Rolls Royce patrol vehicles.

Most folks don't know much about the LCPs part in the war since T E Lawrence sort of stole all the attention with the middle eastern campaign against the Ottoman Empire.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 02:30 PM   #15
CHuDWah
Senior Member
 
CHuDWah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kritter Krick, Flaw-duh
Posts: 1,158
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.e.charles View Post
now that i've been able to look at several web links for these cars, interestingly enough none that i have seen show mechanical reinforcement for the front end.
i understand they were meant to be the mosquitos in the dark, striking and getting away with swiftness and light, but the front axle components and radiator seem very vulnerable.

Q: would a "catch-can" have been mechanically feasible for the Model T cooling system?

thanks

That's my thought as well - seems it would be easy to disable the car with an enemy bullet or two in the radiator.
CHuDWah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2022, 02:28 PM   #16
s.e.charles
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 68
Default Re: 1st Light Car Patrol vehicles

from this website: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1447784340

i am wondering what purpose the extended hubs serve? i can see the value of having solid jacking/ prying points for sand extraction, but don't know if those would lend enough purchase. any additional input appreciated; thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 582748 drivers front.jpg (58.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 582749 drivers side.jpg (49.1 KB, 8 views)
s.e.charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.