Model A Chassis Parts Yes/No?

[all american boy]

Ready to pull the plug on making deal for rolling chassis minus the frame.


The mechanical brakes don't look to good to us.


Fabricating linkage looks like a real hassle.


Did not anticipate THAT!


Hydraulic brakes would be okay.We know how to do that.


Master cylinder.Proportioning valve.Steel lines to each wheel.Then flexible rubber hose to backing plates.


But these mechanical brakes with making the linkage rods just not seem like it's worth it.


Should we give this a pass?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

This is a controversial issue ...and one that we likely cannot make for you. Not from a purist standpoint, but from a mechanic's standpoint, on a infrequently used vehicle such as most Model-As, I think that hydraulic brakes are inferior to mechanical brakes. The stopping force is about equal as both types can lock the brake drum causing the tires to slide.

[mike657894]

the rods are available cheap from mikes-A-fordable. Have you looked around a while for chasis? in michigan nice chasis everything but body come up for sale for 2k-3k with running engine. there was recently a non running one for $600. I'll look around and see if its still for sale and if so ill post it here.

[Bob C]

What are you using for a frame?


Bob

[mike657894]

the $600 special is gone I thought that was a steal for the parts that came with it. If you feel queasy about buying it dont. there are good deals if you be patient.



you may need a facebook acount to see these. Thats just where i have been seeing the glut of these posted. and as they will disapear before this post does ill sumerize. 1 full chasis starting engine $1995 #2 rolling frame axles and some 16" wheels $200 #3 no title hot rod starter. 9 in rear drop axle and roadster body $1900 #4 2200 29 truck project every thing except box, seat, slash aprons





https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2877934400079/


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...7832007493482/


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...7649956654282/

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...6274408228775/

[all american boy]

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'can lock the brake drum causing the tires to slide'


So they DO stop the car? Okay.We will go with that.


'cheap from mikes-A-fordable'


There is cheap and then there is cheap.We are VERY cheap.


Have to fabricate them ourselves.Okay if they are mild steel.


Building the car to slalom around an empty parking lot.No high speed stresses involved.A 'rolling engine test stand'.Real minimal.


'I'll look around and see if its still for sale'


No.Don't bother for us.It is either this deal here or no deal.


'What are you using for a frame?'


Going to fabricate one to fit these parts.


Simple rectangular tubing perimeter frame.Like bucket T frame.

[mike657894]

I would think mild would work. if they break go thicker. The mech brakes work. and when one fails 3 still work.

[mike657894]

for the rods I got the full set with end clevis for $70 on sale from the regular price of $90. but individual rods are $13. On my car only the rear two were in need of replacement. If you got extra steel on hand make em but $13 is pretty cheap. I have been surprised on how cheap I can get parts for this car. Even new old stock. I was thinking of making boots for my shiftier and E brake until I saw they only cost $4 a piece. Some stuff I do make. I didnt like the look of the $300 gas shock kit. And banged out my own brackets in about 4 hours and threw on $100 worth of gabrials.

[all american boy]

'I would think mild would work. if they break go thicker. The mech brakes work. and when one fails 3 still work'


Sounds good.


If anything blows the deal it will be the guy's attitude.No answer in 1 more hour and I am out of there!


We have a firm policy.We only give money to people that are friendly.
I will leave it to somebody else a little more thick skinned to 'rescue' parts from
problem owner.


One more hour.10:00 AM California time.


Will post pic's of Speedway motors Budget T frame and Traditional T frame.


Can't copy their pics.They are web elements.Here are links.


https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tradi...ame,24798.html


https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Nosta...ame,37113.html

[Joe K]

I was headed to an abortive attempt at putting hydraulic brakes under my 1929 CC Pickup. I even bought 1940ish Ford Hydraulics including backing plates, drums, spindles, and a front axle. (All from someone who was headed in the same direction but changed mind.)

The advantage of hydraulics are a more refined design. Most hydraulics today have "self adjusters" which actuate to take up space in the hydraulic system. Which makes them attention free for 80K miles (usually.) BUT - the Ford 1st period hydraulics are not self adjusting (although they can be made to be) So by putting hydraulic brakes under a Model A you don't gain any modern amenity.

As for stopping, the limitation of original Model A brakes are those gosh derned pressed steel drums. Acceptable when new, they thin down in time and increase the tendency to "fade." As in every stop becomes a "hold-on" moment. Pressed on drum rings can reduce this tendency, but by the time you're into rings you're nearing the end of adjustment for the mechanics anyway.

Cast iron drums applied to the mechanical brakes is where Ford himself went LATE in the Model A production.

BUT - either mechanical OR hydraulic brakes/cast iron drums are not an augmentation of stopping ability when you consider the narrow width (aspect ratio) of the tire. They are wont to skid - and Model A tire design is a limitation of the system IF you decide to continue as "stock appearing."

Many back in the day were quick to adopt later Model B and V8 tires and rims simply because of the improved aspect ratio/stopping. Most Model A you see in period pix from the 1930s and early 1940s have taken these on not only because of the ongoing depression, but also because everyone knew intuitively they stopped better.

Now if you're "rodding" this Model A - then by all means put "modern" brakes preferably of the self adjusting disk rotor/pad type. You'll have enough challenge given the typical power to weight ratio of a rod in making it stop. And you need every advantage you can pay for.

And you'll have a similar challenge making it go.

As my brother the gear-head explained, Dragsters seek that optimal weight/traction/power ratio. And they have the advantage of a prepared track, prepared tires, known horsepower and torque, and 80 years of empirical experience to draw upon. Modern street rods not so much.

But each of us take our challenges in different ways. Most rods today are IMHO, "picture perfect" - but a mechanical overkill/push the envelope. They are moving sculptures that go fast. George Barris is fun to see, I've paid money to do so. But I'm glad I'm not driving or insuring one of his.

http://www.barris.com/cars.php

The Model A of my ownership is still mechanical brakes, and probably always will be.

Joe K

[ronn]

brake rods and parts are worth 50. on CL- if you were near NJ I would sell you a set.

this is making a big deal out of nothing........

[30 Closed Cab PU]

As a side note, I have large 16 in bias tires on my truck. and they also want to skid. Not enough weight to take advantage or the large tire patch mating with the road.

[all american boy]

Was ready to make the deal and he comes up with 'needs them out of there right away.


We need time for my buddy to get there and take them out to the desert and store them for awhile.


We have not got our strorage built here yet.Out in the open we get notices.
That is what happened to our 100% complete 292 and Cruise O.
Junked it because the wife was panicking about fine.
Did not contact people that could have used it.Didn't have time.


THAT'S never happening again.Our 430 is safe and sound up in my buddy's second house in Mojave desert.Like storing the old airplanes in Pima and over here in California desert.


So this deal is running into problems.We'll see.

[Joe K]

Meh. Do it right. Buy a boxed frame and get a suitable foundation for the horsepower. About $800 new usually. But I have seen them on Craigslist for $300.

Someone in Model A land will pick up the frame/parts.

Joe K

[all american boy]

'Someone in Model A land will pick up the frame/parts'


Now we're talking.


I pulled the plug on the deal.It was getting too whatever.


'Cow Hampshire'?


I don't thinks that fits the dignity and the decorum of the forum here.


I am tempted to put 'Friendly, California' on mine.


When I was traveling actually saw a place named 'Friendy'.Not bad.


Thank you all for the support.That was the worst! Glad it's over!

[Joe K]

New Hampshire until the late 1960s was noted for having "more cows than people." The reputation sort of stuck.

Vermont, on the other hand, is too mountainous for widespread dairy farming, and Maine too remote to markets (and money to be made easier in pine.)


Massachusetts, on the other hand, is where freedom goes to die. i.e. good hospitals.


Joe K

[all american boy]

'where freedom goes to die. i.e. good hospitals.



That's harsh Joe.Tough crowd there in the Northeast.


I grew up across the river from Philadelphia in New Jersey.


NOT Bruce Springsteen type NJ.Nobody talked like that where we lived.


Model A.


What about stamped steel drums and cast iron drums?


These are '31 parts.Good chance they are cast iron drums?

[Joe K]

Possibly, but you can tell by looking as the late year cast iron drums are "spyder" with spokes.

If they're stamped steel, they're probably worn out, shrink-ringed, or a danger on the road. Cast iron new is the way to go if you go Model A mechanical - although getting from the stamped steel to cast iron requires some metalworking "finesse", and the right tools and a press large enough to do the swaging in of new hub bolts. It's possible to buy cast iron drums/hubs ready to run from the Model A suppliers. Not cheap.

I have always thought that the best brake setup for a "sleeper" (i.e. a Model A that looks stock but is in reality a Tiger at the stop-light) would be disk brakes covered by the steel brake drums. It doesn't radiate heat well (everything enclosed in the hub) but they would work. I think this has been discussed over at HAMB.

OBTW, a box frame and a rod project set aside is listed over on the Maine Craigslist. $400 for the frame and other rod parts are available. See https://maine.craigslist.org/pts/d/b...925408649.html

So they are out there...Check out HAMB too.

Good luck gearhead.

Joe K

[all american boy]

' late year cast iron drums are "spyder" with spokes'


Asking the guy.Think happy thoughts they are cast iron!


'disk brakes covered by the steel brake drums'


You hit the nail on the head! Disk brake conversions.


Being cheapskate we will just look for a place on spindle to hang caliper bracket.


Have a good one treadhead!


EDIT Are wire wheels common on Model A's? Are these axles Wide 5 pattern?

[Joe K]

Wire wheels (welded spoke actually) are standard on a Model A. The later wheels are similar (look to the size of the hubcaps which are larger) and present a better aspect ratio to the road since the later tires are generally fatter - almost modern dimensions by the late 30s.

16" Ford wheels are where Ford ended up before the more modern pressed wheel and what most would use today for a sleeper. They're probably stronger than original Model A wheels since the spokes are shorter. They would have been used on a stock flathead ford with perhaps 3x the horsepower of a Model A, and we all know the Hot Rod Lincoln song. https://genius.com/Commander-cody-ho...lincoln-lyrics

Anyone here on this board would know IMMEDIATELY they were not original Model A wheels, but for common folk, they are similar to original.

There were replacement wheels made in the era of the Model A which are true spoke wheels (jump in here anyone - Kelsey-Hayes wheels?) with individual spoke adjust. Not sure if they would be stronger than an original Model A wheel. But they are pricey because they were expensive in their day, not widely bought then, and today command a premium simply because of rarity. They do look nice.

I hope I have all this right - it was my brother who was the actual gear-head.

I was more into Fred MacMurray and the "Son of Flubber" Model T.



Joe K