everything shuts down

[Daves55Sedan]

Just pulled into my driveway in the '55 Courier and the entire electrical system shut down. Ignition shut itself off, no headlights, no courtesy lights, no dash lights. Nothing.
Had just enough time to check battery cable connections and they are perfectly clean and tight.
Same thing happened a couple weeks ago when I pulled into a parking spot at the grocery store. It just died and there was no battery power to anything. But the car started up again a minute later and everything miraculously had power again.
I guess the only other thing might be the ignition switch itself has gone bad or that the big yellow battery wire to the ignition switch is either loose or corroded. Will check tomorrow during daylight.

[24ruxstel1339]

If you had no lights, I doubt it has anything to do with the ignition switch.
I would check the main ground at the engine and frame or body.
And the other end of the positive cable.

[40cpe]

Ignition switch wouldn't affect the headlights. I would suspect the main power feed from the soleniod terminal, or the battery connection at the Solenoid.

[bobss396]

The trick is to get it to crap out in the driveway so you can trouble shoot it. Or try to replicate the condition. So it happens when you pull in to park. Was it the same turn both times? As in left or right. Do you go up an incline?


Foot on the brake or clutch, look for a wire touching a ground like the pedal arm. With the car running, pull and tug on every connection. I recently had a bad solder sleeve powering up my electric fan.


How is the battery? A loose plate inside can short it out momentarily and it resets itself once the plate shifts again.

[dmsfrr]

A few other places to check for an intermittent 'completely dead' electrical failure.

The battery 'ground' cable where it attaches to the engine block or head.
The body ground cable(s) from the engine to the body. .(will even keep the starter from working)

From the 'Battery' terminal of the starter solenoid there may be two large yellow wires, each one feeding the Ignition and Headlight switches.
If there is only one yellow wire from the starter solenoid going inside to the Headlight switch there will be a yellow jumper wire from that 'Bat' terminal to the 'Bat' terminal of the Ignition switch.

Any of these connections can be loose, corroded. broken or otherwise failing.

.

[Jwawhite]

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Yes, it's odd that the lights would stop operating same time engine does. That would indicate a disconnect somewhere in the electrical system. Question, can a generator keep the engine operating without a battery? Or does it need continual "excitement" to supply power to the coil to fire plugs?

[bfdinardo]

I second dmsfrr. My 56 did the exact same thing. Was running fine then everything shut off. Turned out that the yellow wire connections to the ignition and headlight assy switch were loose. Check under the dash for all of those connections on the ignition terminals and headlight assy switch terminals.

[dmsfrr]

The ground wire between the engine and body on a '55 / '56 is often overlooked. It may be located between the engine and; firewall, inner fender or radiator support. Some may also attach to the frame.

The 'ground' battery cable in a '55/'56 is usually bolted to the engine to make a low resistance / high current ground connection for the starter.
Because the lights, accessories, starter solenoid and voltage regulator all mount to the body, if the body-to-engine ground connection is bad it messes up everything.

The one in this photo (removed from my '55) was apparently undersized enough to nearly melt.

IIRC, for '57+ the battery cable ground connection was changed to the body. But a much larger ground cable between the body and engine had to be added to carry the current necessary for the starter. (along with 2 more high current connections that can get loose or corroded)

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

. . . Question, can a generator keep the engine operating without a battery? Or does it need continual "excitement" to supply power to the coil to fire plugs?

My first guess is it won't work. Without a signal/connection from the battery & voltage regulator to energize the Field coils I don't believe the generator would function.

Excluding damage or a short-circuit, these older cars will however run up to several days without a generator. At least until the battery runs down.
.

[Daves55Sedan]

I've got good clean tight battery-to-engine, engine-to-frame and engine-to-body grounds. That's not the problem.
Both times this happened, were immediately after going up a little incline (parking lot entrance and my driveway). So I did wonder if sediment in the battery might be shorting out the bottom plates, but battery is exactly 3 years old as of last month (Aug).
The positive battery cable had one of those battery post clamps that has the cable clamped onto it (rather than the wire molded into the clamp). I jerked it around some and all the power came back on, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just for the heck of it, I took that entire cable and clamp assembly off and tossed it. I put an old used battery cable that had a good molded-on clamp instead (after cleaning both ends and both terminal posts at battery and solenoid).
However, I am still going to crawl under the dash tomorrow AM and check the big yellow wire connections at the starter switch and headlight switch for looseness or corrosion. I will let you know what I find.

[Daves55Sedan]

BTW dmsfrr, I have a separate ground wire that loops directly off the negative battery cable and connects to one of the solenoid mounting screws, loops to both horns, then to the voltage regulator case mounting screw and I don't remember what all else it connects to. But it is all heavy gage wire, probably #8 AWG. I also looped a #12 gage ground wire from the firewall terminal thru the wire harness grommet and hooked it to two or three places under the dashboard.
I tend to be fairly anal about having ample grounding on the cars because of problems on these cars like corrosion between body panels and brackets and such which are constantly exposed to the elements. So whenever there is an electrical problem on one of the cars, it is usually not because of ground loss.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by bobss396

How is the battery? A loose plate inside can short it out momentarily and it resets itself once the plate shifts again.

That is the first thing I would check. When she shuts down, check the BAT first.

[Daves55Sedan]

The battery wiring and connections under the dash could not be better. Later today, I will take the battery out and tilt the battery case and check to see if it is shorted out.
Has anyone used a battery additive they would recommend which is supposed to prevent sediment build up at the bottom???

[dmsfrr]

If it's 5yrs old or more just replace it, not worth the aggravation or potential acid damage if it explodes.
I borrowed this one from my Tbird as a substitute for a couple days in my OT truck. It was right at 5yrs old and the battery shop had checked it the week before. It blew the top off and split 2 corners all the way to the bottom.

[scicala]

I have a friend who has successfully drained batteries with that issue, then rinsed out and refilled with the correct amount of acid and water with good luck.


Sal

[1937hemi]

just had the same exact thing happen to mine and it ended up being the starter solenoid. Battery goes to it and then everything electrical comes off of it.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by 1937hemi

just had the same exact thing happen to mine and it ended up being the starter solenoid. Battery goes to it and then everything electrical comes off of it.

Not possible for a complete power loss if the solenoid is bad. The battery cable and main yellow wire feeding the dashboard are bolted to the same terminal. Even if the solenoid were inoperable, you would still have full power to all the lights and instruments. You just would not be able to start the engine. Nevertheless, my solenoid starts the engine on a dime anyway.

[Daves55Sedan]

I took the battery out and connected a voltmeter to it. No matter which way I tilt the battery, the voltmeter does not budge off of 12 volts. It seems you need more of a shaking motion to imitate going up into a driveway, but I did not attempt to do that. As I mentioned, the battery is only three years old. But I give up. I am just going to get a new battery.

[rotorwrench]

Does this car have circuit breakers. Ford used them (usually two, mounted on a CB board under the dash) well up into the 50s instead of fuses for lighting and main power distribution. If it has a main breaker and it has gone bad, it will have the symptoms that you have with exception to the starter and the horn relays since they are independent and unfused.

A short in one of the systems may have started this if it is a breaker but I've had breakers that just gave out for no apparent reason before.

[Herman Munster]

I remember once disconnecting the battery in a 51 Cadillac while the car was running. I did it only to try and switch batteries in it while running thinking I could get it to charge a weak battery. It shut down completely. I used to do it with cars that had alternators often back then because I didn't have a battery charger.

[Bob-93021]

If you have an accessory Amp meter? That could be a source for problems you describe. Had one in my 55 years ago and it had heavy wires going to it. All power to the car ran through it and its connections. Just a thought - Bob

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Does this car have circuit breakers. A short in one of the systems may have started this if it is a breaker but I've had breakers that just gave out for no apparent reason before.

The headlight switch houses two circuit breakers for lighting on '55 and '56 Ford cars. Anything else that the factory deemed needing overcurrent protection had inline fuses.
On the '55 and '56 Ford cars, the main yellow heavy gage battery wire runs from the starter solenoid to the battery terminal of the ignition switch and jumpers over to the batt terminal of the headlight switch.
In the case of power loss I experienced, both breakers would have had to be tripped (and later reset themselves), however you would still have power to the heater blower motor, cigar lighter, radio, etc. Those things were dead too. Everything was dead.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Bob-93021

If you have an accessory Amp meter? That could be a source for problems you describe. Had one in my 55 years ago and it had heavy wires going to it. All power to the car ran through it and its connections. Just a thought - Bob

I do not have an amp meter wired ahead of the ignition switch, so that wasn't it.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I remember once disconnecting the battery in a 51 Cadillac while the car was running. I did it only to try and switch batteries in it while running thinking I could get it to charge a weak battery. It shut down completely. I used to do it with cars that had alternators often back then because I didn't have a battery charger.

There have been times when I have disconnected the battery while the engine was running to check if the generator would still fire the spark plugs with the battery disconnected (meaning that the charging system is working).
I took your post to mean that the weak battery you connected to the running car shut the engine down because that battery you were trying to charge was shorted out (bad). Right?

[Daves55Sedan]

Anyway, it has been several days now that I have replaced the old battery with a new one from Autozone. Have driven the wagon everyday since and have even been to the exact same places, including pulling into my driveway several times, but now there is no problem, so I assume the battery I had was shorting out at the bottom. It was only 3 years old. The new battery I got is rated 450 CCa and is smaller than the Exide battery I had before. This new battery costed $108.00 including tax minus the core charge. They offered a bigger battery but it would have costed around $50 bucks more. Whew.

[50fordcoupeman]

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I was told by our local GM dealer here that battery life is expected to be 3 years now. That has been proven to be correct in my RV. Whats going on??

[JeffB2]

It's called "planned obsolescence" they give the battery a 72 month warranty free replacement within 24 months (for instance) battery dies then they pro-rate the adjustment and they make money Back in the 60's when I worked for Sears it wasn't uncommon for a 36 month battery to last 6-8 years not much profit in that. If you live in a hot area like Phoenix it's almost better to buy a battery with less plates as they will last longer because there is more room in the case for plate expansion. I adjusted a lot of batteries back in the day you learn stuff when you are behind the counter. It's like anything these days things don't last but they are more than glad to sell you that "extended warranty" ripoff.

[Ford blue blood]

I think battery life is a crap shoot. The OEM in my 95 F150 was 10 years 8 months old when replaced. My wife killed it on more then one occasion by leaving the dome light on. Came right back to life. The OEM in my 93 Mustang was 2 years old when it quit. The OEM in my 08 Mustang was 7 years old when it died. Go figure.....

[50fordcoupeman]

However they are doing it one thing for sure it is being done to line their pockets and not help the us the customer. That is why I now carry a "jumper box". Have used it twice and it works great.............at least it was not on my vehicles!!

[Herman Munster]

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

I was told by our local GM dealer here that battery life is expected to be 3 years now. That has been proven to be correct in my RV. Whats going on??

I bought an Interstate battery from Costco two months ago and it was only rated for 36 months. Two years ago I bought the same battery for another car and it was rated for 72 months. They cost the same.
It's like 50fordcoupeman said everything "is being done to line their pockets and not help the us the customer".

[bobss396]

My buddy is an Exide dealer, he sells them out of his repair shop. I got one for his cost, either $65 or $75, so I can't kick. The gold standard was the Sears Diehard, but not even sure if they are still in business.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

I was told by our local GM dealer here that battery life is expected to be 3 years now. That has been proven to be correct in my RV. Whats going on??

Probably because China may be supplying batteries now too.


Sal

[50fordcoupeman]

Originally Posted by scicala

Probably because China may be supplying batteries now too.


Sal

Yep.......sad day in Batteryville!!

[24ruxstel1339]

Batteries are not "pro rated" anymore.
They have a 1, 2 or 3 year replacement warranty and they are made to last only that long.
I have been getting 6 years out of AGM (absorbent glass mat) AKA Gel batteries in my Harley. I have a connection and only pay about $20 more than a standard battery.
Not sure if anyone makes a 6V Gel battery yet.

Keep the battery charged, but not overcharged when parked.
I am not a fan of battery tenders.

[Kahuna]

In 1977 I needed a new battery for a 1971 Plymouth Duster 340.
I saw an ad from Montgomery Wards for a "Lifetime" Battery for about 75 bucks.
I got it and they installed it. The tech told me that when it started to fail, or, if I just wanted a new battery, to take a long thin screw driver and drive it thru the plates at an angle to make the battery go bad. Then, come in for a replacement.
The good old days??? Honest employee? Geez
Strange
Jim

On another note, I'm going on 8 years with an Odyssey battery in my 32 Ford.
Cost was about $125.00 delivered