The Ford Barn

JohnB15632 · 07-29-2017, 10:07 AM

This morning, I added oil to the engine, oil to the transmission, and finally water to the radiator/engine. I was hoping to turn the engine over next Saturday.

But when I looked closely at the engine, I see that there is a leak on the driver's side, just aft of the water outlet elbow. It is a constant drip, close to a run.

I am at a loss. I have no idea what to do. Can you guys give me some help and advise?

The restoration is stopped dead.

Thanks,

RawhideKid · 07-29-2017, 10:17 AM

Start looking for another block because I can see that crack running back toward cylinder #4.

This is not uncommon.

Some have said they used JB Weld on a running crack like that, but honestly, I would find another engine.

Good luck.

Marshall V. Daut · 07-29-2017, 10:17 AM

Read my response #3 in this thread:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225418

This stuff will fix the crack in your block, too.

Marshall

H. L. Chauvin · 07-29-2017, 10:19 AM

Hi john,

That horizontal red line, (of what appears to be rust), appears to be a crack.

One way to verify 100% is:

A. To first allow your engine to be in the dark while leaking; and,

B. Observe this red line with a flashlight where if leaking water you will see "definite" light reflections from the water drops.

Afterwards, whatever found, please report back for further suggestions.

Marshall V. Daut · 07-29-2017, 10:27 AM

Well, you may end up replacing the block, but it's certainly worth the $20.90 (free shipping) to order a bottle of Pioneer Ceramic Coat and run it through your engine. If it works, you've saved yourself a ton of money and work. If it doesn't work, you're out only $20.90, a mere drop in the bucket compared to the expense, time and hassle involved in replacing the engine because of a leak.
So, try THIS sealer first, not something you picked up at Pep Boys or O'Reilly's. I would be very surprised if this sealer doesn't fix that crack. The crack I described in my posting was a nasty one, reaching from the exhaust valve over into the adjacent cylinder. I guarantee you that area gets a LOT hotter than the side of the engine away from the valves. If this stuff did such a good job repairing the crack in my engine, yours will be a piece of cake. You can always replace the engine later if this sealer doesn't work.
AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE BOTTLE TO THE LETTER!!!

Marshall

Marshall V. Daut · 07-29-2017, 10:37 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here's the link to that $20.90 (free shipping) bottle of Pioneer Ceramic Coat:
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-T610-.../dp/B000NSKDYW

Yes, it's more expensive than the auto parts store sealers, but it's also two or three times better. Isn't quality always more expensive than mediocre? I assume you want something that will work the first time???
Marshall

JohnB15632 · 07-29-2017, 10:39 AM

One thing of note. this engine has not be running for over 50 years. I was attempting to preform all of the preliminary steps, engine oil, transmission oil, trickle charge the battery hoping to turn it over next Saturday.

Would you recommend that I still go through with the trial start up?

If I get the engine to run, then add the sealing product just after getting the engine to run?

Thanks,

JohnB15632 · 07-29-2017, 10:51 AM

Just my luck. I called the company and they no longer make the product recommended. They did say that there is a product K Seal.

Would anyone recommend using K Seal to seal the leak that developed in my engine?

Thank you,

john charlton · 07-29-2017, 11:13 AM

The crack area is not a stressed area and will respond well to the suggestions from Marshall . Even if it drips a tiny bit at first rust will seal it after while . If it is a happy driver it will be just fine . Before you start the engine you MUST drop the pan ,pop out the dipper tray and clean out all the gloop . Clean the oil pump guaze as well . Take the valve chest cover off and clean out the chest and I mean clean clean clean. The main bearings are fed from the chamber floor you can see the holes ,one each end and one in the middle . Many a good engine has been ruined by well meaning folk who think the oil is fine as it is golden on the dipstick ,all the acidic water and sludge has settled out around the oil pump pick up etc etc . There is a post on You Tube showing what can be found in the pan of an engine that had not been run for many years . I think the post is" Oil Change Model A shocking " It is a viewing must !!!

John in light rain Suffolk County England .

H. L. Chauvin · 07-29-2017, 11:22 AM

John,

As mentioned above, you may be lucky where this crack may be only external, which may be able to be repaired.

No doubt, tons of block sealers are sold each year. I tried a few of these "Mechanic in a Can" products 60 years ago several times on cracked blocks and all failed every time.

My opinion is that these canned products are still advertised as:

Tons of these sealers are sold each year.

However, when professional mechanics report the results for cracks in stressed areas, these Mechanic in a Can products are about as successful as the hundreds of today's products advertised and sold as private parts enlargement pills.

JohnB15632 · 07-29-2017, 12:20 PM

Good Afternoon,

If I can get the engine to run, which it hasn't for over 50 years, while it is idling, should I remove just enough water to put the sealer in? When the block dries out, could I sand the rust away and apply JB Weld from the outside also?

Thank you all for your help and advise. I would be dead in the water without your help.

Thank you,

BILL WILLIAMSON · 07-29-2017, 12:28 PM

"Maybe" that's why it was PARKED, many years ago???
Bill W.

katy · 07-29-2017, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Would anyone recommend using K Seal to seal the leak that developed in my engine?

You pays your money and takes your chances.
https://www.amazon.com/K-Seal-ST5501...ews/B001QT9KO6

1931 flamingo · 07-29-2017, 01:14 PM

At this point you've got nothing to lose, except the price of a can of sealer.
Get it running and follow the directions. LMO FWIW
Paul in CT

JohnB15632 · 07-29-2017, 06:20 PM

I sure do hope that I can save this engine. I made the discovery that the engine number matches the number engraved on the frame!!!!

There is reason now to do what is necessary to save this engine.

Thanks,

RawhideKid · 07-29-2017, 06:25 PM

Well, depending on how badly you want it fixed, it can be repaired, IF you have someone who can braze it or stitch and pin it.

DJ S · 07-29-2017, 08:22 PM

There's a guy in Millbury, MA that has an excellent reputation of stitching and pinning motors. Our club has used him for years!
Frank Casey
508-865-6613

Tom Wesenberg · 07-29-2017, 08:47 PM

Read through my thread and towards the end you will see how I fixed my freeze cracks, which are like your's.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...acks+sandblast

Gerald1961 · 07-30-2017, 12:19 AM

I agree to the answers before. My engine had a crack an cyl1 towards the fan at the lower edge of the water area, looking exactly as yours does. I went a different way, but also successully. I drained the coolant and carefully dremeld the crack to a half radius of 1/16, finding a long blowhole in the cast behind the crack

. Thats why canned sealer (which I tried before) didnt work in my case, because there was no more material. My first thought was that the block was lost, but then I just glued the crack and hole with JB weld. It took two or more layers to fill my hole completely. After curing I smoothened the glued surface with a metal file, so it is almost invisible what I did. It is perfectly sealed and I went 10000 mls since then without problems. It is 6am in the mornind and I am too lazy to go to the garage and take a photo

. But i will do later.
Resumee: Nothing is lost up to now with your engine. Good luck!
Gerald

JohnB15632 · 07-30-2017, 07:02 AM

You guys are the best!! I would have no idea how to go about fixing the engine.

Thank you all for your help and information.

I will go ahead with my plan to light the engine off this coming Saturday. If I can get it running and perhaps stop the leak, I will keep you informed.

Thank you!!!!!!

07-29-2017, 10:17 AM	#2
RawhideKid BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Lower Left Coast Posts: 469	Re: Engine water leak Start looking for another block because I can see that crack running back toward cylinder #4. This is not uncommon. Some have said they used JB Weld on a running crack like that, but honestly, I would find another engine. Good luck. __________________ Before Walmart you had to buy a ticket to the fair to see a bearded lady!

07-29-2017, 10:27 AM	#5
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Engine water leak Well, you may end up replacing the block, but it's certainly worth the $20.90 (free shipping) to order a bottle of Pioneer Ceramic Coat and run it through your engine. If it works, you've saved yourself a ton of money and work. If it doesn't work, you're out only $20.90, a mere drop in the bucket compared to the expense, time and hassle involved in replacing the engine because of a leak. So, try THIS sealer first, not something you picked up at Pep Boys or O'Reilly's. I would be very surprised if this sealer doesn't fix that crack. The crack I described in my posting was a nasty one, reaching from the exhaust valve over into the adjacent cylinder. I guarantee you that area gets a LOT hotter than the side of the engine away from the valves. If this stuff did such a good job repairing the crack in my engine, yours will be a piece of cake. You can always replace the engine later if this sealer doesn't work. AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE BOTTLE TO THE LETTER!!! Marshall Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 07-29-2017 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Updated the priced

07-29-2017, 10:37 AM	#6
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Engine water leak Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Here's the link to that $20.90 (free shipping) bottle of Pioneer Ceramic Coat: https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-T610-.../dp/B000NSKDYW Yes, it's more expensive than the auto parts store sealers, but it's also two or three times better. Isn't quality always more expensive than mediocre? I assume you want something that will work the first time??? Marshall

07-29-2017, 10:39 AM	#7
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: Engine water leak One thing of note. this engine has not be running for over 50 years. I was attempting to preform all of the preliminary steps, engine oil, transmission oil, trickle charge the battery hoping to turn it over next Saturday. Would you recommend that I still go through with the trial start up? If I get the engine to run, then add the sealing product just after getting the engine to run? Thanks,

07-29-2017, 10:51 AM	#8
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: Engine water leak Just my luck. I called the company and they no longer make the product recommended. They did say that there is a product K Seal. Would anyone recommend using K Seal to seal the leak that developed in my engine? Thank you,

07-29-2017, 10:17 AM	#3
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Engine water leak Read my response #3 in this thread: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225418 This stuff will fix the crack in your block, too. Marshall

07-29-2017, 10:19 AM	#4
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Engine water leak Hi john, That horizontal red line, (of what appears to be rust), appears to be a crack. One way to verify 100% is: A. To first allow your engine to be in the dark while leaking; and, B. Observe this red line with a flashlight where if leaking water you will see "definite" light reflections from the water drops. Afterwards, whatever found, please report back for further suggestions.

07-29-2017, 11:13 AM	#9
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Engine water leak The crack area is not a stressed area and will respond well to the suggestions from Marshall . Even if it drips a tiny bit at first rust will seal it after while . If it is a happy driver it will be just fine . Before you start the engine you MUST drop the pan ,pop out the dipper tray and clean out all the gloop . Clean the oil pump guaze as well . Take the valve chest cover off and clean out the chest and I mean clean clean clean. The main bearings are fed from the chamber floor you can see the holes ,one each end and one in the middle . Many a good engine has been ruined by well meaning folk who think the oil is fine as it is golden on the dipstick ,all the acidic water and sludge has settled out around the oil pump pick up etc etc . There is a post on You Tube showing what can be found in the pan of an engine that had not been run for many years . I think the post is" Oil Change Model A shocking " It is a viewing must !!! John in light rain Suffolk County England .

07-29-2017, 11:22 AM	#10
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Engine water leak John, As mentioned above, you may be lucky where this crack may be only external, which may be able to be repaired. No doubt, tons of block sealers are sold each year. I tried a few of these "Mechanic in a Can" products 60 years ago several times on cracked blocks and all failed every time. My opinion is that these canned products are still advertised as: Tons of these sealers are sold each year. However, when professional mechanics report the results for cracks in stressed areas, these Mechanic in a Can products are about as successful as the hundreds of today's products advertised and sold as private parts enlargement pills. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 07-29-2017 at 11:22 AM. Reason: typo

07-29-2017, 12:20 PM	#11
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: Engine water leak Good Afternoon, If I can get the engine to run, which it hasn't for over 50 years, while it is idling, should I remove just enough water to put the sealer in? When the block dries out, could I sand the rust away and apply JB Weld from the outside also? Thank you all for your help and advise. I would be dead in the water without your help. Thank you,

07-29-2017, 12:28 PM	#12
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Engine water leak "Maybe" that's why it was PARKED, many years ago??? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

07-29-2017, 01:14 PM	#14
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Engine water leak At this point you've got nothing to lose, except the price of a can of sealer. Get it running and follow the directions. LMO FWIW Paul in CT

07-29-2017, 06:20 PM	#15
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: Engine water leak I sure do hope that I can save this engine. I made the discovery that the engine number matches the number engraved on the frame!!!! There is reason now to do what is necessary to save this engine. Thanks,

07-29-2017, 06:25 PM	#16
RawhideKid BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Lower Left Coast Posts: 469	Re: Engine water leak Well, depending on how badly you want it fixed, it can be repaired, IF you have someone who can braze it or stitch and pin it. __________________ Before Walmart you had to buy a ticket to the fair to see a bearded lady!

07-29-2017, 08:22 PM	#17
DJ S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Southwick, MA Posts: 590	Re: Engine water leak There's a guy in Millbury, MA that has an excellent reputation of stitching and pinning motors. Our club has used him for years! Frank Casey 508-865-6613

07-29-2017, 08:47 PM	#18
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Engine water leak Read through my thread and towards the end you will see how I fixed my freeze cracks, which are like your's. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...acks+sandblast

07-30-2017, 12:19 AM	#19
Gerald1961 Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 59	Re: Engine water leak I agree to the answers before. My engine had a crack an cyl1 towards the fan at the lower edge of the water area, looking exactly as yours does. I went a different way, but also successully. I drained the coolant and carefully dremeld the crack to a half radius of 1/16, finding a long blowhole in the cast behind the crack. Thats why canned sealer (which I tried before) didnt work in my case, because there was no more material. My first thought was that the block was lost, but then I just glued the crack and hole with JB weld. It took two or more layers to fill my hole completely. After curing I smoothened the glued surface with a metal file, so it is almost invisible what I did. It is perfectly sealed and I went 10000 mls since then without problems. It is 6am in the mornind and I am too lazy to go to the garage and take a photo. But i will do later. Resumee: Nothing is lost up to now with your engine. Good luck! Gerald

07-30-2017, 07:02 AM	#20
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: Engine water leak You guys are the best!! I would have no idea how to go about fixing the engine. Thank you all for your help and information. I will go ahead with my plan to light the engine off this coming Saturday. If I can get it running and perhaps stop the leak, I will keep you informed. Thank you!!!!!!