Modifications worth doing??

[Tugmaster]

I'm trying not to get ahead of things on my project. More just thinking out loud.
As I look thru the different catalogs I see a lot of different upgrades and modifications you can do. I'm sure some are well worth the time,money and effort and some aren't. You guys have way more experteese than I do. Here's the ones I'm wondering about:

Four bladed fan

Thermostat

Modern points

Oil pressure gauge

Isolation motor mounts.

And anything else I missed.

Thanks,
Todd

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Don't get in a hurry to make mods. You will find over time the things that YOU will deem necessary for you specific needs and driving habits. I keep my '29 all original (for nostalgia) and my '31 has mods for touring. Just have fun with it, and take it slow..you'll make fewer mistakes.

[SDJason]

I tried to keep mine as stock as possible, but there are a few things that have been modified:

- voltage regulator (one of the ones fitted inside a cutout, so it still visually looks the same - got tired of overcharging the battery & the resultant acid pouring out)

- battery disconnect switch (don't know how necessary it is, but it seems like a prudent safety measure)

- 3rd brakelight (the led one that looks like a thin black strip - pretty inconspicuous in the back window; once again a safety measure - folks nowadays are used to seeing a 3rd light - I don't feel like being the guinea pig to test their reflexes)

- fuses (the previous owner added a fuseblock when he installed turn signals, so I just kept it there)

- 5.5 head (once again - something the previous owner had done; I'm not about to go rip it out for the sake of stockness)

- electric fuel shutoff (another thing the previous owner had done, also something else I'm not going to remove, as it doesn't seem like it would be worth the trouble, and it is an extra safety measure, I guess)

- thermostat (I don't know how necessary this is, but after reading about the benefits of it, I figured it's easy enough to add, and it doesn't change the appearance at all)

- sealed beam headlights (yet again, something that was done long before I owned the car. I just don't have the $ to justify switching them back right now)

- cast iron brake drums (another thing the previous owner did, and I'm probably grateful for; from what I've read, it improves braking performance dramatically - since I have nothing to compare it to, I can't vouch for that, but will take everyone else's word at face value)

- aluminum two-bladed fan (done by a previous owner at some point. After reading the horror stories of what can happen with an original fan, I took a magnet to mine to check what was on there)

Edit: almost forgot - safety belts!! Those were actually the first thingI had installed

that's it off the top of my head...

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Tugmaster

I'm trying not to get ahead of things on my project. More just thinking out loud.
As I look thru the different catalogs I see a lot of different upgrades and modifications you can do. I'm sure some are well worth the time,money and effort and some aren't. You guys have way more experteese than I do. Here's the ones I'm wondering about:

Four bladed fan

Thermostat

Modern points

Oil pressure gauge

Isolation motor mounts.

And anything else I missed.

Thanks,
Todd

Just my opinion.

[700rpm]

You don't need to do or add any of those things.

[Tugmaster]

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Thanks Rock,

I plan to drive this car ALOT. I'm just trying to absurd as much information as I can from the knowledge base that is on this sight. I know from working on other cars over the years that there are a lot of mods that are more worthwhile than others.
Todd

[foxfire42]

My recommendation is turn signals with 4 way flashers

When I bought my 400A it had no less than 32 (yes 32) non original additions. Some were mechanical and others just added bling. The A I drive most is 100% stock minus a half percent for turn signals. It's mechanically as good as it can be and I'd drive it anywhere.

Barb Birt

[columbiA]

Non of those mods areneeded at all.If you drive the car alot in the winter,just cut a cardboard to fit behind raad shell to cover lower 1/2 of rad.For modern road & traffic conditions,I find an OD & a 5.5 or 5.9 head realy helps if you use the car alot like I do.If you only putt around town a bit for a few miles a year,then no mods are needed.

[Jim Mason]

check my site for Where to start with an opinion on modifications by Charles Stephens and the rebuttal by Marco Tahtaras...

[Terry, NJ]

Original two bladed fans area No-No! The stupid things are 80+ y.O.. The four bladed fans are little better, that's a little, not a lot. I have two of them and I'm impressed with just how flimsy they are too. I have a mod B dostributor and some day I'll put it on, someday! These old Fords had virtually no oil pressure so why do you want to frighten yourself looking at it pegged near zero! Henry Ford's next great trick was the N_ series tractors. Mine would get 40lbs of oil pressure and then fade to3-5 lbs as it got warm. Scary huh? Mine runs cool enough without the thermostat. The best mod is the 5.5 head and modern lighting, a cupholder, and good mirrors.
Terry

[Tugmaster]

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

check my site for Where to start with an opinion on modifications by Charles Stephens and the rebuttal by Marco Tahtaras...

Thanks for that link. More stuff to read and absorb
Todd

[Rowdy]

Of all that are listed on your original post I see none that I would highly recomend and one I would advise against. High compression head is highly recomneded so you have half a chance of getting out of the way of the idiots you share the road with. Rod

[roccaas]

Drive a lot at night?

Halogen headlamps
LED Tail lamps

[Duffy1]

When I got me 31 sw I had a 4 prong approach not to say it is needed . Just what I thought was needed for touring.

1) safety ( seat belts ,blinkers,third brake light ,battery shut off, fire extingisure (sp),cast iron drums,safety glass )
2) driveabilty ( 16 rims with tubeless tires, f-100 steering gear,lightened fly wheel with v8 clutch and pp, A/C,cup holder, 4spd O D syncronized transmission, B balanced engine with inserts, modern points/dist , floato motor mounts)
3) reliability ( temp gauge, pressurized radiator with overflow bottle ,6 blade plastic fan,oil filter,high boy air filter )
4) lookability ( What ever one likes )

[Purdy Swoft]

The old four blade fans are dangerous and liable to sling a blade. There is no advantage with the newer four blade fans and they are more difficult to remove. I use the new two blade aluminum fans from Snyders. I don't like thermostats because they will eventually stick closed and cause problems. I've got years of experience with the so called modern points and they are all BAD!!! There is still lots of peer pressure to use them. Modern points are a JURY RIG at best, they are mounted at a different position on the upper plate and good timing is impossible, they are difficult to adjust because they don't use the offset screw for adjustment that was used in their original V8 distributor set up. The oil pressure gauge isn't worth the trouble or expense because the model A uses a gravity and splash oiling system. Floating motor mounts cause more problems than they solve.

The mods that I consider worthwhile are a higher compression head for hill climbing ability and better all around driveability. I run Brumfield 5.9 heads on three of mine. Snyders sells 5.5 and 6.0 compression heads that are cast iron and have original appearance. I use the Fun Projects can style voltage regulator that takes the place of the cut out. No modifications to the generator is needed. Just install the can style regulator in place of the cut out and it regulates the charge just like a modern car. A shortened pitman arm and teflon buttons in the tie rod and drag link ends will make the model A act like power steering when it is moving. The barrel or modern style starter drive is a good mod because it has no bolts to drop or spring to bend or break. None of these mods are noticable and you maintain the original look.

[1931 flamingo]

Personally, I would replace orig fan (do a search) with the aluminum one available from vendors, add the fuse that mounts on the starter, a RH tail/stop light assy ( if you don't already have one) and signal lights and T/stat. Oh yeah and an alt and convert to 12V..............................................O ops, just kidding on the last 2.
Paul in CT

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Tugmaster

I'm trying not to get ahead of things on my project. More just thinking out loud.
As I look thru the different catalogs I see a lot of different upgrades and modifications you can do. I'm sure some are well worth the time,money and effort and some aren't. You guys have way more experteese than I do. Here's the ones I'm wondering about:

Four bladed fan

the aluminum 2 blade fan was shown in a test by John LaVoy to actually cool the best when compared to the four blade and plastic fans. I would not drive an a "a lot" with an original fan.

Thermostat

I like them...the engine runs better when its thoroughly warmed up to 160 degrees. Actually they run better at 190, but most folks feel better with the buffer of a 160 thermostat.

Modern points
yucch, trouble, trouble, trouble. todays repop A points work fine....use a burn out proof condenser, make sure your shaft bushings are well fitted, use a B distributor cam, make sure the wire between the plates is the 100 strand type and the old original dizzy works great.

Oil pressure gauge

not necessary

Isolation motor mounts.

if your car vibrates too much, replace the old rubber on the original style mounts and check to see if your front mount is the original style and not one of the repops, none of which improved anything.. Back in the day, repop rubber for original mounts did not fit, but today's product from the reputable dealers fits fine. If it still vibrates after that, the trouble is elsewhere. The isolation style mounts I have seen were causing the frame to sag at the mount location.

And anything else I missed?

turn signals are important to alert all the bad drivers out there. Those LED brake and tail lights sure show up bright but the cheaper ones are a pain to install and require modifying the bezel with a dremel tool. I just got a brighter bulb for my car

With good reflectors in the headlights and good wiring, filament bulbs work well. I use 32/32 because while the 50/32 are brighter, they seem to burn out quicker. I had the type of halogens that fit right in the socket and they were really bright and nice, but they blew when there was a voltage spike. That cost too much to replace so I went back to filaments


Thanks,
Todd

Oh, BTW, get one of Tom Wesenberg's voltage regulators for your generator

[Kurt in NJ]

Proper restoration to original tolerances will cure the need for most modifications, many modifications need further modifications to support them.

Some people need modifications that downgrade the original reliability so they have something to tinker with.

[Dick Webber]

I've used seat belts, 2 tail lights and a thermostat for years.

[QGolden]

Everyone has an opinion, here's mine,

Four bladed fan, new fan yes, 4 blade optional, and likely no benefit for the energy consumed.

Thermostat. Yes I think they are important. The engine temp should be a constant.

Modern points. Unnecessary, original work fine if set up proper.

Oil pressure gauge. Unnecessary, you only get 3 lbs or so on a warm engine.

Isolation motor mounts. Unnecessary.

Put money into safety first, longevity and comfort second, everything else is just bling.

IMHO

[machine girl]

Well we enjoy modern shocks, air cond, seat belts, down draft carb,f100 steering, O.D. trans, hyd brakes, alternator, halogen lights, modern tie rod ends and more. all bolt on stuff.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by machine girl

Well we enjoy modern shocks, air cond, seat belts, down draft carb,f100 steering, O.D. trans, hyd brakes, alternator, halogen lights, modern tie rod ends and more. all bolt on stuff.

Sounds like a pretty cool street rod you have!!


.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Sounds like a pretty cool street rod you have!!


.

were we still talking about a MODEL A FORD????

[msmaron]

Modern Points, Not really needed
4-blade Fan...why
Alternator-Yes
Seatbelts-Yes
Turn Signals-Yes

SAFETY!!!First

[SDJason]

Originally Posted by msmaron

were we still talking about a model a ford????

that was my thought as well...thought I had wandered over onto the H.A.M.B.

: )

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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I dunno Mark, sure sounded like a street rod to me. Air conditioning, modern steering, hydraulic brakes, synchromesh transmission, Weber 24/36 carburetor, yada-yada.... it definitely fits within what NSRA defines as a street rod.

I do agree that turn signals can be a nice safety item, as is seat belts if they are adequately installed (--which most aren't based on what I have seen) but at some point I ask what is the use of calling it a restoration? No harm or shame in calling it what it is in my view!!

[Mad Mac]

Whatever else you do, please make sure you have GOOD TAIL LIGHTS. When I used to have just a single stock tail light I was hit from behind one night and suffered severe damage to my "A" and was very lucky to avoid serious injury to myself and my wife.

The standard Model A set-up with just one tail light is simply not good enough for modern traffic. I have since installed two LED bicycle-type tail lights that cost only $12 each. They are powered by two AAA torch batteries and are switched on manually on the rare occasions when I drive at night. They are very bright and can be seen a long way off.

[Brobrian]

Wow, always amazed at the variety of styles A owners represent. Guess I lean more toward the "original is best" end of the scale. I've been driving my car fairly regularly to work and around town for 25 years now. I've got an alternator, but everything else is stock. Check that, this past summer I added a 5.5 head. Anyway, through reading posts here on the Barn, I've seen how everyone from Rodders to Restorers have their own definitions of what is best for their A. So, I vote for making mods as you go, and thus finding out for yourself how you'll best enjoy the experience. I'm occasionally inconvenienced by poor headlights that wink out at the worst times, but I still have the old bulbs and connectors. Just part of the A experience. I don't feel unsafe in my cars, so no additional lights and belts. Original points/distributor work fine, as do the brakes and steering box. If I wanted a different driving experience, I'd get a newer old car.
Enjoy your A !

[glenn in camino]

Most of my model As are stock except for
1 aluminum 2 blade fan
2 seat belts
3 thermostat because it's cold here in winter
4 inside temperature guage
5 cast iron brake drums
6 Model B or Snyder head
7 overdrives for touring

So far I've installed an Afordable oil filter and a K&N air filter on one of my Model As to hopefully help extend oil changes and engine life.

I must admit that one of my cars has a highly modified B engine that has given me many trouble free miles for 15 years, but, the car looks stock, and I still love basically stock Model As.

I don't like and would never do, my opinion only.
1 hydraulic brakes
2 16 inch wheels
3 non Model A colors or upholstery
4 too many accessories
5 Anything that detracts from the stock Model A exterior look.

[Mike V. Florida]

Add me to the nothing is NEEDED to drive the car alot, A properly restored Model A will work just fine in all conditions.

I will say NO plate glass in the car.

The trouble with mods are, when do you stop adding them?
What are you comparing the 80+ year old car against to determine the need for mods.

If you're not careful you end up with a Shay.

[Gary Karr]

Well, I'm stepping over into the modified Model A world now. I'm putting an Optima battery into my Tudor! I'll still have a Ford script batter on had though for any showing of the car.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by machine girl

Well we enjoy modern shocks, air cond, seat belts, down draft carb,f100 steering, O.D. trans, hyd brakes, alternator, halogen lights, modern tie rod ends and more. all bolt on stuff.

Sounds like a nice car! What body style?

[Gold Digger]

Just my opinion but I would keep it as original as possible. My daily driver is all original except turn signals and the generator wouldn't make enough light at night so I installed a 6 volt alternator and was going to use halogen bulbs but found I didn't need them with the alternator.

[jrelliott]

Seat belts , turn signals and good lights. If you have good reflectors and 32/50 cp bulb get plenty of light, brighter bulbs for tail lights. One of the various electronic regulators for the generator. Will work as good if not better than an alternator and can push start with a generator, but not an alternator. New Two bladed Aluminum Fan my old four blade failed and almost took out the new radiator.
If you want a chart of all the higher cp bulbs for the A send me an email to [email protected] and will send you the list along with part numbers for various electrical parts. Most of the other items have bee covered by others.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by jrelliott

Seat belts , turn signals and good lights. If you have good reflectors and 32/50 cp bulb get plenty of light, brighter bulbs for tail lights. One of the various electronic regulators for the generator. Will work as good if not better than an alternator and can push start with a generator, but not an alternator. New Two bladed Aluminum Fan my old four blade failed and almost took out the new radiator.
If you want a chart of all the higher cp bulbs for the A send me an email to [email protected] and will send you the list along with part numbers for various electrical parts. Most of the other items have bee covered by others.

I've push started many times with an alternator??????

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Jordan

I've push started many times with an alternator??????

Yes, both of you are correct to a certain point. The key part of this was you can't push-start a Model-A with a dead battery if equipped with an alternator, ....something most one-wire GM alternators do to a battery when left to sit for a couple weeks or longer.

[Christoph]

Todd
Take it easy.
Try to be original till its on the road.
you Need :
good brakes (original)
good lights (original - i will never use an alternator )
You might use an EVR from Tom (as i do)
I changed to soft mount engine (float-A) and wouldnt do again!!
You need Fuses for sure!!!
I like my clutch adjuster !!! (see pic)
I use optima Batterie and love it.
You might find out about things once driving....

Have fun Christoph

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Yes, both of you are correct to a certain point. The key part of this was you can't push-start a Model-A with a dead battery if equipped with an alternator, ....something most one-wire GM alternators do to a battery when left to sit for a couple weeks or longer.

Well the nice part about having the 12 volt one wire alternator is being able to safely jump start off another modern vehicle so you don't have to push start it. As you know, but not many others do, you can jump start a 6v system off a 12 volt modern battery. But you run the risk of burning up some electrical parts if the cables are left on to long. And if you accidently step on the brake while the cables are connected or turn on ur lights they'll immediately blow.

[Tugmaster]

Thanks so much for all you insights and sugestions. I really appreciate it.
From what I read on this thread and others here is what I think may be worthwhile changes: 2 blade aluminum fan. T-stat, water temp gauge. Also, I'm thinking cast brake drums may not be a bad idea.
Thanks,
Todd

[Duffy1]

Do not forget the safety glass and seat belts .