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Old 05-04-2019, 07:15 AM   #1
ericr
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Default how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

We talk on here about the Assembly Plants. Does anyone have any knowledge about what level of assembly actually occurred? I think engines and frames were supplied to them already assembled. Surely the painting process would be complicated and looking at the size of the building in my city that was the Assembly Plant, it is hard for me to conceive of painting operations being conducted there with such variety in body colors.
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

This brings up another question on paint although somewhat off topic. How do todays plants paint different colors for each line. do the bodies split up for each color then re enter the line or do they have several robots one for each color on the same line. If several different colors are painted on the same line how do they prevent cross contamination.
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:51 AM   #3
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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Originally Posted by ericr View Post
We talk on here about the Assembly Plants. Does anyone have any knowledge about what level of assembly actually occurred? I think engines and frames were supplied to them already assembled. Surely the painting process would be complicated and looking at the size of the building in my city that was the Assembly Plant, it is hard for me to conceive of painting operations being conducted there with such variety in body colors.


To be specific, I think your nomenclature is what is throwing you off somewhat. The "assembly plants" were actually called Branches, -and while that definition may sound petty, you must study what Ford intended them to be. These branches were extensions of one large manufacturer that produced many items used (-but not all) and assembled some or all of their product line. Additionally however, not all Branches actually assembled vehicles. To thoroughly understand the system requires that you study the ancillary Ford-owned support companies and how they operated to compliment the assembly.


For example of the above, Ford owned and operated his own rail system for transportation. When a train left the Rouge with maybe 30 train cars loaded with engines/transmission assemblies, by the time it had reached the 3rd or 4th Branch, those engines would have been unloaded and now there potentially was 30 empty train cars. As a means to be efficient, certain Branches along the way would manufacture components that would be transported to a neighboring Branch for assembly there. Another example might be if the Oklahoma City Branch had stamping capability and the train mas scheduled to make a stop there prior to traveling on to Dallas and then Houston, it might be more efficient to stamp the panels in OC and then transport them on to DA and H than to have dies and equipment in all three locations. Additionally, Ford also stamped panels that were used by outside body manufacturers that supplied bodies back to Ford.

Regarding during the Model-A era, the paint was lacquer which is very quick drying. Although I have not read the specifics, I would suspect they could clean a gun very quickly however I know they also had multiple guns for the colors that were going down that particular line.
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Old 05-04-2019, 12:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

I can see it was more complicated than meets the eye.....I had also wondered if the Branches were actually more to supply spare parts to dealers.


but at least one pf the Service Letters talks about dealer employees coming over for "driveaways".....warning them not to snoop around, smoke, nor ask to carry parts orders back in the new car, etc.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

Kinda Eric. I have been fascinated by the inner workings of Ford for years, and there is WAY more than what I could ever write here, but so often we hear about Ford did not waste anything and so they used up inventory and such. On a very broad spectrum, that is kind of an accurate statement however it is very misleading.


For example, let's assume that you were the manager over the Foundry and I was the Manager over the Machine Shop. You did not come to work on a random day and say to yourself "I think I will have my guys make a bunch of front axles today." Instead, upper management knew what their projected production figures were along with components needed. They had every item time allotted in seconds, and they knew exactly how long it took to manufacture XX amount of items to meet the need. It was your job to meet that order for that day and to ensure it was done. Simultaneously, I was told how many axles were to be machined (-again, down to the second) on which day. Ford already had a plan for each of those axles including those that would be used for Service Replacement. So again, you did not come in and arbitrarily choose an item and a quantity out of thin air, ...and Ford did not say "Oh, we have XX amount of extra axles that we need to find a place for." They knew specifically what the quantity levels were and which vehicles would be getting the items.

Additionally, Ford was all about efficiency and conservation. Ford had a confidant and advisor for years named John Burroughs in which Ford would take Harvey Firestone, Thomas Edison, and Burroughs on annual trips (excursions) where for weeks they would bounce ideas off of one another about how to do things better. If an item made sense from a financial or practicality standpoint, Ford would implement those ideas to save time. Thus he reason for small running changes throughout production. Alternately, there are rumors (unfounded from what I have seen or read) where Ford used shipping crates for floorboards as a way of not wasting anything. Because of the labor needed vs. the benefit of recycling, this is unlikely yet Ford was resourceful in another area such as they needed an access hole in the center crossmember to be able to install the battery ground cable bolt. The metal punched from that area was saved and (re)used as the bracket to attach the front service brake rod turn springs. This is just one such way that an improvement was made in production efficiency along the way. Many other similar items of how production was made more efficient, and many of these you must look at factory drawings and Engineer's notes to realize what their goal was by changing something.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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Brent: Right on. To try and explain Branches in detail would take forever. Presently, I have Branch history in 14 Volumes of 2" binders, and still research nearly every day. BTW - I began my research in 1964. Again, what you advised eric was correct. Jim Langley...
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

eric: Listen to Brent. Brevity is not an answer. My Ford Painting operations cover some 8.5x11 pages alone. Should you have specific questions re, Ford Branches, email me, possibly I can answer your questions. Jim Langley [email protected]
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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The "assembly plants" were actually called Branches,
I believe they were called Branch Plants.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:07 AM   #9
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

all fascinating. did you guys ever hear that whenever part production was contracted out to other companies, the Ford Co. had their auditor demanding to see that company financial records to ascertain if they were making TOO much profit off of the Ford Co.


Of course I suppose they could not bully the Champion Spark Plug Co., just smaller companies. supposedly there was one Ford official doing this who was obnoxious about it.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

Ford was brutal with subcontractors,his goal was vertical integration,complete control of the manufacturing process,the total elimination of subcontractors.For instance Briggs body had terrible working conditions,driven by Ford demand.But auditing subcontractors had merit, Ford caught EA Laboratories,a maker of horns and other electrical parts for the A, gouging the hell out of them.Personalities played a role,he didn't like George Holley or Bendix.In the end,Ford needed them as well. Take some time if your interested,the oral histories at the Benson Ford research center are fascinating.. http://cdm15889.contentdm.oclc.org/


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Old 05-05-2019, 10:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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all fascinating. did you guys ever hear that whenever part production was contracted out to other companies, the Ford Co. had their auditor demanding to see that company financial records to ascertain if they were making TOO much profit off of the Ford Co.


Of course I suppose they could not bully the Champion Spark Plug Co., just smaller companies. supposedly there was one Ford official doing this who was obnoxious about it.

I have not heard nor read that. I doubt that is factual in that Ford also manufactured items, -and they generally had alternate suppliers on each outsourced item. If Sparks Withington came in at more money than Heinz or Stewart-Warner did for their horns, I'm sure they had a 'chat' with them to discuss pricing. Alternately, locations of manufacturers likely played into the mix. The horn made by Emmanuel Aefiero was originally in NJ and I think they added a factory later in Atlanta in the late 20s. I'd say during peak production in 1929, they needed his EA horn to meet demands but because of all the other car accessory stuff he made, he probably was too expensive for Ford, and the reason that horn was discontinued. Ironically, if you know mch about brass-era horns, you know the name Rubes horn. It was Aefiero that actually came from Italy to NY with the idea of the horn, but Rubes took his idea(s) and manufactured the Rubes horn. Supposedly Aefiero sued Rubes and won a large lawsuit which is how he got into manufacturing car accessories.


I could go on but most people think that Ford (Henry and Edsel) actually manufactured most of the Model-A, but when you really get down to dissecting it, you find that Budd Body company actually designed most of the Model-A bodies. Briggs offered some help too but while Ford did manufacture most of their own Model-A bodies, I don't think he had much of a design staff in-house. Lots to learn outside of just restoration work on a Model-A that most people will never know.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

It sounds like the methods uded by Ford back then are the present adopted methods re-instituted today such as JIT (just in time) yearly examination of pricing and wanting new discounts each year, competitive pricing for materials, only producing enough stock to eliminate paying taxes on unneeded inventory. I worked in a tool manufacturing and part stamping house and we had to be very flexible in our production. If suddenly RCA started the heck out of a particular unit, we had to be able to adjust producing much more stock and deliver it in a timely manner. Also we could not over produce stock possibly anticipating a larger order. If a die crashed and we were unable to meet their production needs and they shut down a line we were fined heavily. Also many manufacturers sometimes doubled and tripled the sources for their parts which made us compete against each other for price and delivery. Sounds like Ford was way ahead of the game. Also I heard Ford went to Windsor, Canada for producing parts to avoid some of the union issues. Ford is still a tough supplier and is very competitive to satisfy. Good for them.
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

Ford bought up the Detroit, Toledo, & Ironton railroad so that he could move his Model T products out of Detroit more efficiently to other rail heads where they could be moved on further. This was the only way that they could move freight and not be bothered by strikes and other problems in the Detroit area. It was sold for a profit in 1929 before the crash.

Ford sent knock down assemblies all over the world for final assembly in the various assembly plants or whatever you want to call them. Ford even manufactured right hand drive knock downs for shipment to countries that required them. Assembly plants only assembled cars, they rarely manufactured any parts. The Rouge was the main manufacturing complex and the model As were primarily designed in Dearborn by a team led by Edsel Ford. Budd had made model T bodies for Ford but only made truck and van bodies as well as beds & wheels for Ford during the model A era. Briggs & Murray were the primary car body manufacturers contracted by Ford but there were other small contractors as well. Walter Briggs and James Couzens, who was the money man at Ford, had worked together on the Michigan Central Railroad some years before so this helped him get involved with Ford in the model T era. The man who became president of Murray Body Corp in the early Model A era was Clarence Avery who had worked at Ford to improve the assembly line timing in the model T era at Highland Park. *He also was credited for his capability with calligraphy and cursive writing of the original Ford trademark*. He had been one of Edsel Fords teachers at one time so they got along well.

Chassis would have been assembled at the assembly plants to make for easier shipment of parts. Most bodies were finished by Ford or the separate contractors prior to going to the line or shipping to assembly plants. They were ready to drop onto the chassis so they only needed limited amount of finish work to complete them. Shipments to the various assembly branches would have been made taking into consideration the capabilities of the plant they were being shipped to.

* This statement is incorrect. It was C Harold Wills that is credited with the Logo. Refer to post 33 for correction details.

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Old 05-06-2019, 11:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

Keep it coming guys, this is good reading.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

I don't get the idea that the Company particularly concealed most of their operations, with the exception of design of new models. They knew that competitors could not match the vast resources of the Company and had an eccentric running the Company who was not always obsessed with profits.


Whatever else one can say about the Company, it was certainly an extremely pro-customer enterprise that hasn't been matched often if at all.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:39 AM   #16
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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I don't get the idea that the Company particularly concealed most of their operations, with the exception of design of new models. They knew that competitors could not match the vast resources of the Company and had an eccentric running the Company who was not always obsessed with profits.


Whatever else one can say about the Company, it was certainly an extremely pro-customer enterprise that hasn't been matched often if at all.




Don't kid yourself. To begin with, Henry was not really 'running' the company during the Model-A era outside of being a consultant. Second, Ford's competitors DID match, -and exceed resources of Ford, ...especially in 1931 where he was being outsold by Chevrolet on a 3 - 1 basis. Third, Ford was VERY obsessed with profits for himself and not necessarily his Agencies. Ford factored in how many units they could manufacture and then forced his Agency owners to take them. "Either order a vehicle that you can sell or we will place an order for you!" Henry Ford by today's standards would be considered a crook.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:50 AM   #17
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Ford sent knock down assemblies all over the world for final assembly in the various assembly plants or whatever you want to call them. Ford even manufactured right hand drive knock downs for shipment to countries that required them. Assembly plants only assembled cars, they rarely manufactured any parts. The Rouge was the main manufacturing complex and the model As were primarily designed in Dearborn by a team led by Edsel Ford. Budd had made model T bodies for Ford but only made truck and van bodies as well as beds & wheels for Ford during the model A era. Briggs & Murray were the primary car body manufacturers contracted by Ford but there were other small contractors as well. Walter Briggs and James Couzens, who was the money man at Ford, had worked together on the Michigan Central Railroad some years before so this helped him get involved with Ford in the model T era. The man who became president of Murray Body Corp in the early Model A era was Clarence Avery who had worked at Ford to improve the assembly line timing in the model T era at Highland Park. He also was credited for his capability with calligraphy and cursive writing of the original Ford trademark. He had been one of Edsel Fords teachers at one time so they got along well.



Is that a totally accurate statement? Budd was responsible for the design-work and stamping process of many bodies such as Coupe, Roadster, Phaetons, Tudors, etc.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

Ford Motor Company lived by cash,not cars.Liebold devised a system where Ford lent cash to banks that financed dealers and split the interest with the banks. Ford was paid in cash for cars assembled,the banks took the risk floating the money to the dealers.Payroll was met with cash and millions was kept on hand at the Rouge.Ford's profits from the T were amazing,it kept the company afloat from '30 to '46 when auto production ran at a loss..war work was done at cost plus a dollar..When folks wonder why Ford stayed with the T so long the answer is simple from one perspective..money,he made a vast fortune producing that car.

Ford production method was time management,not just in time inventory.Foreman lived by the stopwatch,it was the key,logged daily to monitor efficiency.As such,fine point restoration is a noble pursuit and yields beautiful cars..but they weren't built that way,they were built by the clock.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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Is that a totally accurate statement? Budd was responsible for the design-work and stamping process of many bodies such as Coupe, Roadster, Phaetons, Tudors, etc.
Ford Motors started on building the Rouge plant after the share holders were all bought out by the end of 1920 since they didn't want to help pay for it. By the time the production started for the model A, they had complete foundry and machine shop operations in full swing and the steel rolling mill & forging plant was making steel. They supplied steel to any contractor that didn't give what they felt was a good price so I'd say it is a pretty correct statement. The Dearborn engineering lab building was built after World War I so that is where all the "New Car" engineering was happening. Ford built all the Tudor sedans in house with all the steel, huge presses, and assembly jigs that they needed already set up in the Rouge. Most cowls for Tudors & coupes were the same and used the gas tank on the outside in 28 & 29. Fordors and the Cabriolet cowls were made by subcontractors so the tanks were hidden underneath. Ford was well on the way to building everything they needed in house but it took about 10 more years before they were completely there. Ford even had their own glass plant at the Rouge but they had one in Pennsylvania too. Ford contracted nearly all low production bodies to outside producers. They still didn't have the capability yet to produce everything that was cranking out of the assembly plants in the model A era. The older Highland park plant was still being used for a few more years after the Rouge was in full production.

Ford Motors had the largest machine shop in the world in 1928 and it was still growing.

Charlie Sorensen detailed a lot of information in his book. He was pretty proud of the company he helped to build during the 40-years he was there. A lot of the other core employees were too. The people Henry Ford hired had a lot to do with making things work better and make more profits. The difference between Henry Ford and a lot of other manufacturers is that he would drop the price on a product as they got the capability to make more and more. This just helped increase sales and profits. Most everything they built up in manufacturing was paid for by profits so everything was paid for as they needed it. Ford only used outside money when he had to and that was not very often.

Check out the Coachbuilt web site. It has a lot of info about Budd, Briggs, And Murray as well as a lot of others.

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Old 05-10-2019, 11:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: how much assembly did Assembly Plants do?

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Ford Motors started on building the Rouge plant after the share holders were all bought out by the end of 1920 since they didn't want to help pay for it.
I thought they started building the Rouge plant in 1917 or 1918.
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