Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2017, 10:00 PM   #1
KS farmboy
Junior Member
 
KS farmboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7
Default Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Hello all,
I have a 1950 stock F 2 flathead V8 with 4 spd straight cut gears. It was our family farm truck and got jammed around too much I'm afraid. It just does not want to down shift - double, triple clutch no matter. What year did 4 spd synchro trannys come out and will it bolt up to existing clutch housing? What are they named? I really want to hang on to this truck and be able to drive in traffic.

Other question: can I take the body off and put it on (1980s or later) F 250 chassis with modern engine and brakes etc? How much $$$ and grief?

Thank you!
KS farmboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 10:21 PM   #2
fordcragar
Senior Member
 
fordcragar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Yakima, WA
Posts: 479
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Welcome to the Ford Barn.

Your second question would best be answered by your state police, as to whether you could do it or not.
fordcragar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-11-2017, 10:31 PM   #3
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

In the mid 80;s Ford had a 4 spd with OD in the f-150, that's pretty easy to install.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 10:31 PM   #4
skidmarks
Senior Member
 
skidmarks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: newark, delaware
Posts: 3,735
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Syncro silent T98 . Good luck they are hard to find. 51 and 52 F6 with a 6 cyl i was told is the common place to find one. IHC used the same trans for a couple years. And to make it worse not all T98 are the same.
I have been looking for one for my 51 F2
skidmarks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 10:36 PM   #5
FortyNiner
Senior Member
 
FortyNiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: u-rah-rah-Wisconsin
Posts: 1,130
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

The F2 trannys were non-syncro, so there wasn't much down shifting to be easily had.

Attempting to use a more modern frame will introduce a variety of issues due to differences in width (the F2 was fairlly narrow), spacing (the F2 was shorter from the cab forward), and flatness (the newer frames have a kickup for the bed not present on the F2).

The other issue is your differntial. Beyond the tranny gearing, the rear gears are not intended to go fast. So in addition to a transmission change, you are likely going to need either new gearing or a rear end swap.

Anything is possible. Money, budget, and available skills are always the keys.
__________________
19 and 49 F1 - jes' like Henry II built
1946 Deluxe - as Henry built it
FortyNiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 12:39 AM   #6
flatheadmurre
Senior Member
 
flatheadmurre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,045
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS farmboy View Post
Hello all,
I have a 1950 stock F 2 flathead V8 with 4 spd straight cut gears. It was our family farm truck and got jammed around too much I'm afraid. It just does not want to down shift - double, triple clutch no matter. What year did 4 spd synchro trannys come out and will it bolt up to existing clutch housing? What are they named? I really want to hang on to this truck and be able to drive in traffic.

Other question: can I take the body off and put it on (1980s or later) F 250 chassis with modern engine and brakes etc? How much $$$ and grief?

Thank you!
You need to step a bit on the accelerator between double cluthing to downshift...takes some practise.
The issue you get with swapping in another transpission is that you looose the emergency brake setup.
How about the more common 3spd HD box...that one might take the emergencybrake setup ??
flatheadmurre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 06:40 AM   #7
Robert Beenenga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: tonica Illinois
Posts: 257
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Hello I have a big 4-speed trans out of a fire truck that I believe was a F-2 I will get a look at it and get back to you, or give me a call in a couple days thanks Bob in Illinois 815-228-3177
Robert Beenenga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 08:18 AM   #8
1952henry
Senior Member
 
1952henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Beenenga View Post
Hello I have a big 4-speed trans out of a fire truck that I believe was a F-2 I will get a look at it and get back to you, or give me a call in a couple days thanks Bob in Illinois 815-228-3177
It wouldnt have been A T98 in an f2.
__________________
I dig coal, which provides motivation for EVs.
1952henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 01:48 PM   #9
Newc
Senior Member
 
Newc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,462
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Hi all; Why not a 4speed from a 60's-70's PU, very cheap and they have 3 syncros. they can have double drilled trans pattern and will fit a 49-53 flathead car bell housing. Right fellows? Newc
Newc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 02:58 PM   #10
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

I learned to drive in a 52 F3 and it does take a special touch but it can be shifted up or down with minimal clash when you get used to it. These transmissions are still easy to find for parts. Folks take the half bell off and throw the rest in the junk heap. With the right tools, they are easy to overhaul.

I was a KS farmboy myself a long time ago. I liked the F1 with the 3-speed but the old F3 would pull a full size bull or a large full water tank.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 11:56 PM   #11
Scotty's 52 F3
Senior Member
 
Scotty's 52 F3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Marana, AZ.
Posts: 404
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

I put a T98 in my 52 F3. Bolted right in. Had to shorten drive shaft a bit. Mine came out of a 1950 F6. You can use any early T98 from 48-52. The later 53 up will not fit.

You can also use the half bell or "hogs head" and swap in a later trans like Ol Ron said or even a T5 from a Camaro. More work involved though.
Scotty's 52 F3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 10:25 AM   #12
GB SISSON
Senior Member
 
GB SISSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,847
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

When I bought an AA in 1973 I was grinding a pound of gears with every shift. Old timers in town would say "you gotta double clutch that thing". I tried pushing the clutch in twice but no difference. Nobody in my world knew anything about it so I tried everything. Never got good at it and sold after 2 years. In about 92 I re-entered the crash box with a 38 tonner. Huge learning curve, still no mentors or internet. I taught myself by trial and error. I have owned maybe 12 fhv8 trucks with this tranny since. Currently own 3. Here's what I learned, and a lot of guys here grew up with these things and have way more experience driving them than I do and welcome any and all tips and advice.

Upshifting: When up to speed in first gear, release clutch, foot off gas pedal. Shift to neutral, let up on clutch.Now you predict what the lower engine rpms will sound like if you engaged second gear. It's just a brief wait til your engine slows down to it's 'second gear rpms'. At that point, quickly depress clutch and shift into second.
Downshifting: Trickier... Let's say we are climbing a hill in 4th and losing power. Same thing to get into neutral but now you have to blip the throttle to simulate what the engine will be winding up to when third gear is
engaged. In climbing a hill, especially with a load, timing the road speed with 3rd gear's rpms is a quickly changing curve. You must act quickly and decisively throwing it into third.

It's all about predicting and learning what the engine's rpms will be AFTER your shift is completed. Don't worry about ruining your gears while practicing. They are made of a high grade of kryptonite. After about 4 years with the tonner I pulled the top off the tranny and expected rounded teeth, missing teeth and metal filings half way up the box. To my amazement all teeth looked brand new. Clean, sharp, perfect. I buttoned it up and drove 5 more years as my daily driver and wood hauler. I know this thread asked about the synchro and I had a 53 that had one and it was good, but these T9s are good transmissions too and yours is already in and original. Just hoping to give you an alternative. I wish someone had explained a little bit about driving a crash box to me earlier on. OK, I think I'm done.
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
GB SISSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 11:28 AM   #13
flatford8
Senior Member
 
flatford8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lyman,ME.
Posts: 2,612
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

I agree with GB. You need to match the road speed with the engine rpm and the gear you want. Keep practicing. You’ll get it. ...... Mark
__________________
I'm thinkin' about crankin'
My ragged ol' truck up
and haulin' myself into town.
Billy Joe Shaver
flatford8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 02:20 PM   #14
Shu47
Senior Member
 
Shu47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Maltby, Washington
Posts: 187
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Agree with GB and flatford8. I have a 47 tonner and if you are willing to practice practice practice then you can get pretty good at shifting these things. Even when you get good at it you will still miss it on occasion. But that's OK because they are super tough. It is super rewarding when it starts clicking and you realize you have developed a skill that many give up on.
Shu47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 03:02 PM   #15
Ross F-1
Senior Member
 
Ross F-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 2,438
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

The problem with any of the original trannies that came on F-2's and larger is the rear bearing retainer, which has the trans support as an integral part (the "feet"). They are prone to cracking, and very hard to find good ones. This applies to the T98's.

With the F-2's deeper crossmember (compared to F-1's) you have a world of choices for automatics and manual trannies that would make driving a pleasure compared to the awful crashbox. I've known guys who mastered the shifting on them, but you couldn't talk while driving over the whining of the trans. In modern traffic they are downright dangerous IMO.
__________________
'52 F-1, EAB flathead
Ross F-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 04:59 PM   #16
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 2,106
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

I was researching if any states ever had restrictions on driving manual shift cars if you got your license on an automatic. I found that if one gets a CDL with an automatic, there is a restriction against manual transmissions. It used the 10 speed fuller as an example that if one is not experienced they could get stuck in neutral which means the driver has lost control of the vehicle.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 06:13 PM   #17
1952henry
Senior Member
 
1952henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Miller View Post
I was researching if any states ever had restrictions on driving manual shift cars if you got your license on an automatic. I found that if one gets a CDL with an automatic, there is a restriction against manual transmissions. It used the 10 speed fuller as an example that if one is not experienced they could get stuck in neutral which means the driver has lost control of the vehicle.
This is true. Shifting a semi is much like shifting a spur gear transmission, except you dont use the clutch. You have to match engine speed to transmission. And yes, you can get stuck in neutral.
__________________
I dig coal, which provides motivation for EVs.
1952henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 06:20 PM   #18
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,339
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

If the 1950 F2 is anything like my 48 F2, the rear end is still your limiting factor. The 48 has 4:86 to 1 rear. Don't matter if you have a 6 like mine or v8 you are getting the revs up pretty high by time you are over 45 ish. The pre 1972 3/4 ton rear end should be an easy swap (so I have been told) and it has 4:11 to one gears.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 07:06 PM   #19
Brad Hole
Member
 
Brad Hole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, WI
Posts: 34
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

I'm with GB, Shu, and Flatford8. I, much like GB, didn't have much direction on how to drive a non-synchro. I was 20 at the time, and got the hang of upshift relatively easily (I had/have a '45 1.5ton), but I always ground the downshift something horrible - to the point that I just wouldn't do it. I did exactly as GB did - depress the clutch twice between shifts, but it never helped, because, as he stated, the engine RPM's wouldn't match the road speed.
Later that year, I purchased a '47 1.5 ton with a '56 312 Merc and a "HD truck trans" (still haven't figured out what it is. Maybe this winter...), but still straight-cut gears. I love driving the truck, so I figured that I better teach myself how to downshift, I made some noise (and I'm sure some fine metal shavings), but after a few weeks I had it down decently.
Like said above, it's all about matching RPM/engine noise to road speed. I had a especially fun time because neither my speedo nor my tach work, so it's all by ear and feel. But once you get the hang of it, it's rather enjoyable.
Brad Hole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 07:22 PM   #20
Brad Hole
Member
 
Brad Hole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, WI
Posts: 34
Default Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny

Oh, one more thing on it.

A lot of old-timers (or at least, the ones by me) say that you shouldn't use the clutch for anything other than starting or stopping in straight-cut gearboxes. Essentially, you slide the trans in and out of each gear, using the throttle to match the RPMs.

As far as more in depth, slide the transmission out of gear, into neutral. Bring the engine RPMs up to what you believe the next gear would be at the current road speed, then go a little bit past that point. Hold light pressure against the desired gear as the engine begins to decelerate, NOT as you are still accelerating. Once the road speed and engine RPM match, the trans should slide into gear. This is slightly easier to learn upshifting rather than downshifting, but the technique is relatively the same (though you needn't rev the engine as much when upshifting - if at all).

I can't say I would recommend learning to match speeds that way right off the bat, as it does require some sense of feel for it, but I personally found that it was easier to get the speeds matched without the clutch. On occasion, I may need to tap the clutch to help the gears get along (in my trans it always seems to be the 2-3 shift that needs the help), but that is perhaps only once every 20 shifts, be it up or down.

I am far from being able to call myself an expert by any means - I've only had them a little a year now :P - but the learning curve isn't horrible. And as it was said above, the transmissions were near bulletproof. They were made to be rode hard and put away wet. They can take the abuse
Brad Hole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.