Flathead Disassembly Help

[diiulio]

I have the valve spring assemblies out of the 8ba and the connecting rods and pistons. I am sure you will laugh when you read my questions, but how do you remove the key from the crank? Then how do I get the slinger and timing gear off the crank? Also, how do I get to the (4) 1/2" bolts from the timing gear on the cam? It is behind the distributor gear and I don't know how to get the dist gear off also.

What plugs do I take off the engine before bringing it to the machine shop for hot tank and magnaflux?

What is the flathead screw behind the timing gear of the cam? (I slipped the cam out with the gear on it)

Thanks for your time and help.
Jason

If anybody is in the Alexandria, VA area I wouldn't mind a hand or someone stopping by to check it out that knows flatheads.

[VeryTangled]

diiulio, Welcome to the forums! I'm sure you'll get helpful answers here. I'm not knowledgeable enough to help. In the northern 'burbs. You should hook up with the nova Early Ford V8 Club.

Northern Virginia (RG# 96) Contact: John Sweet
EM: northern_virginia_rg@verizon,net
PH: 703-430-5770 Location: Vienna. PO Box 1195, Vienna, VA. 22183

Good Luck,

-VT/Jeff

[epw1949]

Jason,all your questions can be answer by the Flathead King of N.E. that be Walt Dupont of Gardiner Me. email [email protected] If he can not help you than no one on earth can.Hope this helps EPW

[flatjack9]

Actually it is better to use a punch near the end of the key. Pound it down and the other end will come up, then pry it out. There is no way you will get the slinger out without removeing the crank gear and sleeve. Use a stout gear puller, it is a tight fit. Probably need to heat it also. The gear will push the the sleeve and slinger off. Also need to remove the cam bearings. By the way, the distributor gear does not need to be removed.

[Mike in AZ]

welcome to the 'Barn, Jason....hopefully you have or are getting your answers....just keep asking....are you referring to the cleanout plugs in the crank journals?? before getting the crank cleaned??....good luck.....Mike

[Henry/Kokomo]

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Welcome aboard! Just remember that the only dumb question is one you don't ask. We were all novices once (and many of us still are!).

[diiulio]

Thanks everybody. I did talk to Walt last night and he is very knowledgable. He walked me through exactly what I needed to do. It was a pleasure talking to him.

I was able to get the key out of the crank by hitting it with a punch on the back side and then using pliers to pry it out. I loosened all the main caps so I can get the crank out tonight and put a puller on it. Hopefully my puller is stout enough.

I think I need to get one of those impact screwdrivers to get the oil galley plug out because when I tried to unscrew the plug it wanted to just ruin the notch in it.

We'll see tonight.

I guess my last question, what is the best way to get the plugs out of the crank, drill or punch and hammer? How many are there?

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by diiulio

Thanks everybody. I did talk to Walt last night and he is very knowledgable. He walked me through exactly what I needed to do. It was a pleasure talking to him.

I was able to get the key out of the crank by hitting it with a punch on the back side and then using pliers to pry it out. I loosened all the main caps so I can get the crank out tonight and put a puller on it. Hopefully my puller is stout enough.

I think I need to get one of those impact screwdrivers to get the oil galley plug out because when I tried to unscrew the plug it wanted to just ruin the notch in it.

We'll see tonight.

I guess my last question, what is the best way to get the plugs out of the crank, drill or punch and hammer? How many are there?

Morning Dil----, give me a simplier handle to talk to you. Something like, hey you. LOL. i'll tell you a simple way to get that plug out behing the cam gear. If you have a torch or even a Burnsmatic torch. Stand the block on back end, heat that plug up, then go in the house and steal one of your wifes fancy candles, put that candle on the hot plug and melt some wax, it will run down around the threads on the plug, then you can unscrew the plug with you fingers, OR, you better use a big screwdriver. Don't tell everybody that trick. Walt

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by epw1949

Jason,all your questions can be answer by the Flathead King of N.E. that be Walt Dupont of Gardiner Me. email [email protected] If he can not help you than no one on earth can.Hope this helps EPW

Ed, when you come up this way again bring one of those big hats, my head is getting big. LOL Walt

[diiulio]

I have the block all disassembled except for the oil tube that goes down the intake. Do I need to pull that tube out? If so, what is the best way so I don't ruin the tube?

Also, I have read the books and lots of threads on here. Of course everyone has their own favorite cam, Litero, 400jr., Max1 etc.

I am leaning toward the 400jr, but how does it compare to the Max1? I know the 400jr sounds more lumpy, but actual performance differences is what I am curious about. Does anybody have a torque/hp curve comparison? I realize I am getting a small hp engine, just looking for something to have fun in.

My build is a Ford 8ba w/stock crank, conn rods, two 97's, edelbrock intake, stock heads, T5 tranny and it is all getting slapped into a 30 coupe with no hood or fenders. My goal for the car is just to drive around 2-3 times per week and a couple of long trips a year.

Thanks
Jason

[Ronnie]

Oil tube stays put.

R

[diiulio]

Just to be clear I was asking about the tube that goes from the front to the back of the block between the lifters, not the filler tube.

Ronnie, is that the one you were talking about?

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by diiulio

Just to be clear I was asking about the tube that goes from the front to the back of the block between the lifters, not the filler tube.

Ronnie, is that the one you were talking about?

Stays put. After machining you can run something like a gun cleaner in it just to get any residual stuff out.

[diiulio]

Thanks for your help.

How about your cam opinions and knowledge?

[joel]

Flatjack9 has a cam in his 39 that I like; can't remember what it is. L-100 is good.

[flatjack9]

Hey, Joel, how you doing? My cam is a Winfield SU1-A. Very similar to the L-100. Has a nice throaty idle, but still has plenty of low end torque.

[quickchange34]

Dont for get to remove the fuel pump rod bushing.

[Henry/Kokomo]

If you're building up a flathead V8, you would be well advised to get two books. The first is entitled "Nostalgia" by Ron Halloran and the second is "Flathead Facts" by John W. Lawson. I can't recommend them highly enough. The combination of the two books will take a lot of guess work out of your build and give you the benefit of a couple of real pro's experience. Both of the authors post here on the 'Barn and their literary works are excellent referrence material. FWIW

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by quickchange34

Dont for get to remove the fuel pump rod bushing.

Unless it is overly worn or damaged there is absolutely no reason to remove the pushrod bushing. Just make sure the .060 dia. lube hole is clear. (check for flow with air pressure)

[fenders53]

I second Henry's suggestion for reading material. I purchased JWLs book last week. It's just loaded with dyno pulls comparing the common mods and speed parts. You're likely to make better use of your budget if you read it BEFORE you start buying parts like cams and induction.

[diiulio]

I am finally in the assembly mode of the 8ba. It ended going .060 over on bore, and .010/010 on crank. I have a few questions. I have washed the block with soapy water, used brake cleaner, and compressed air to clean the block and crank including the throws of the crank.

Questions:
1. Is ISKY rev lube good to put on the crank mains, connecting rod bearings, cam, lifters, rods, etc.? Should I use something else? I already bought a container of it in addition to the little container that came with the cam.
2. Should I use new bolts for the main caps? Get a set of ARP or?
3. connecting rods, old nuts good, or do I need new ones?
4. Main cap bolts, do they go in dry or should I use anti-seize or lock tight?
5. Nuts on conn rods, dry, anti-seize, or lock tight? I have the thin locking nuts that go on top of the nuts too.
6. There is a bushing for the fuel pump rod, does this need to be replaced or checked before I put this engine back together?


Sequence:
1. put main bearings in dry
2. put crank in dry
3. bolt main caps w/bearings on dry
4. individually plastigage and make sure each bearing is at .001 to .003
5. remove crank
6. install main bearing seal
7. install one piece front oil seal
8. lube the mains with Isky Rev Lube (IS THIS OK or do I use something else?)
9. bolt main caps on
10. make sure it still spins fairly smooth
11. Move on to pistons and connecting rods - I'm sure more questions will come.
12. Put cam and spring assemblies back in.

[Mart]

I think the rev lube is just for the cam and lifter faces. Everything else should lubed with oil or maybe a mix of oil and something like STP. People who have built more motors than me can advise on that.

Mart.

[Ol' Ron]

Put the cam in befor the crank, much easier. Cam lub for cam, oil and stp goodbearing lub or assy lub. ATF for rings. Good luck.
PS .0035 too much for street engine .0025 better. Remember this engine was designed for 10wr oil not the sh** most people uz.

[diiulio]

OK, checked the mains and they are .002 for two and between .0025 for the third.

Real question, so I put a few of the compression rings in the cylinder, at the top and bottom, measured the same. I measured all the pistons with one ring and received a consistent reading on the top and bottom of each cylinder. I tried about 3 rings from the top groove and 1 ring from the bottom groove.

When I put the ring in about two inches down and measure the gap, I am getting around .0023, but my rebuilding the Famous Ford Flathead by Ron Bishop says the compression rings for the piston should be between .010 and .017.

I am out of spec. Any thoughts on this? I am 60 over on the piston and I have the Offy 4 ring set, which says 3.248" on the box.

What to do...

[Ross6860]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Put the cam in befor the crank, much easier. Cam lub for cam, oil and stp goodbearing lub or assy lub. ATF for rings. Good luck.
PS .0035 too much for street engine .0025 better. Remember this engine was designed for 10wr oil not the sh** most people uz.

Straight 10W SAE oil? Really? Probably non-detergent at that.

Guess the 20W50 I'm running is a little thick. Like a lot of folks I'm probably compensating for worn everything by running heavier oil.

What do you recommend running in a fresh motor? Straight weight or multi-viscosity oil? What weight?

Money aside, I like Mobil 1 after break in. We use Mobil products in all our working engines.

[GOSFAST]

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Hi "d', we use Lubriplate on all the bearings, rods, mains, and cam.

We use only "moly" lube on the cam lobes/lifters.

We use a set of ARP studs on the mains, and 16 new ARP rod nuts (when the stock rods are in the program).

On that ring gap number you show (.0023"), do you mean .023" or is it the correct number as posted?? If it IS the .023" number you will still be fine.

We set the rings at .018" top and second, I have used .012"/.014" on the 2nd compression with no issues. Some rings "make-the-numbers", some don't. You can use the same oil you plan on running for the piston/ring install.

The following here is important and makes the ass'y somewhat easier. Before you install ALL the piston assy's, take the time and set the valve lash first. You can only do this on the Flathead's. In other words, install the cam, all the valves, and the crank (with the timing gears in place) and finish the lash. It's much easier turning the unit over without the pistons/rings in place. I believe this is what Ron is saying in the above post.

Plus, if you encounter ANY issues with the cam "turning" it's much easier to get in there without the crank in the way!

The main clearances are fine, the rods should be similar! I would not use synthetic at all, but at least not on the "break-in". I use the Brad-Penn break-in oil, it's made specific for the initial fire-up.

Absolutely no "Loctite" on any internal fasteners (rods or mains). Cam bolts would be OK. We use it rarely on any assy's.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We refuse to use any STP anywhere, anytime. Use the Lubriplate on the timing gears also!

[diiulio]

Sorry, I fat fingered the number. Yes, it is .023". So, will this cause a problem being .005" over sized?

I did get Permatex assembly lube for the bearings. I didn't see the lubriplate at the auto parts store.

I have the one piece front oil seal and the rope rear seal. The rope rear seal instructions have a roll pin that I am supposed to drill in to hold the seal in place. Is this normal?