Making Wood Plans available

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by fiftyv8

Why the hell are Model A wood kits so damn expensive anyway.
They are just wood and there are enough Model A's and T's for that matter out there to make it economical enough to produce at a fair price.
I don't think this country is short of lumber...

I hope old car restorers/builders make their own wood parts and let those thieving bastards go broke.
Just take a look at what the cost of a Model A pickup roof kit costs or that of a roadster pickup body kit.

Most pieces are not rockets science and surely these big time reproducers have computer operated equipment that punch this stuff out by the thousands if required.
If they don't have that fancy machinery then our low paid illegals or folks across the border would be willing to make that stuff at low prices.

Don't get me started on where else this stuff could be had cheap...

At least I see one of lower priced manufacturers does sell single components in lieu of a whole kit.

You've never done this work, Have you? As Brent said, it requires thinking ' acting, and cutting in three axis. There are very few square angles on these pieces. There are long radii, compound radii, compound angles, odd angled tabs, tongues that require precise fitting to matching pieces. I'm thinking of the rear doors in my Town Sedan. And where else might these pieces be had? I'm a former Tool and Diemaker, (and cheapskate) and I could duplicate much of it, but some I had to buy (about $1800) Local Cabinet makers? They charged me $50 to create a mortise and tenon joints in a seat base. I had the wood all cut and sized. My saw wouldn't cut deeply enough. I think you should remember that Henry Ford worked to +/- .010 when he made this wood and that's what I'm shooting for. And it ain't easy! Go make some of it. And I don't mean the 90 deg. gussets. Maybe you'll find it to be easy, but I doubt it. Good luck!
Terry

[dads34ford]

Has anything changed here?? Are their any plans available anywhere for wood for a 34 Ford 3 Window Coupe???

[redmodelt]

Guess a set of plans would be like a book or record. You can buy and read/play the book/record then sell it but you can not copy it. You the author or in this case designer, received your money for your expense the first time it was sold. Chances are the book or plans will sell a lower cost then they were bought at. Think of a library, they buy lots of books when no longer needed they are sold. That mean the author only received one royalty from the first go around.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by dads34ford

Has anything changed here?? Are their any plans available anywhere for wood for a 34 Ford 3 Window Coupe???

Not as far as I am concerned. I continue to digitize each piece of a bodystyle either from prints, patterns, or samples however the process is very laborious and time consuming. I had not planned to do any Model-40 prints, so this may be a market for you. I would expect to find the prints you need at the Benson Ford library.

As mentioned above, proceeds from sales would never be good enough to cover costs, and the piracy would also cut into revenues making it nothing but a headache.

[Jungle Jim]

Guys,

Years ago I had the same issue with planetary gear reduction drive plans for experimental aircraft. My solution was to print the plans on red paper. Scanning was difficult and photocopying resulted in everything looking black.

Regards,

Jim

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim

Guys,

Years ago I had the same issue with planetary gear reduction drive plans for experimental aircraft. My solution was to print the plans on red paper. Scanning was difficult and photocopying resulted in everything looking black.

Regards,

Jim

Paper plans and large paper plans at that, are the best way to go to minimize (not stop) piracy. Not easy or cheap to scan.

[ronn]

as Brent said,
whole thing would be a headache, unless you were just offering them for free.


Why Linux is so successful in Europe.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jim

Guys,

Years ago I had the same issue with planetary gear reduction drive plans for experimental aircraft. My solution was to print the plans on red paper. Scanning was difficult and photocopying resulted in everything looking black.

Regards,

Jim

Very easy to circumvent in today's technology Jim by just scanning the print with the red background, then importing it into Photoshop where you click on the red and turn all reds into whites by making it the transparent color. BTW, welcome to Fordbarn!!




I realize we have beat this horse to death but another thing I have learned since asking this question here some 5 years ago is that most hobbyist woodworkers do well with 2D plans however they struggle with layout and cutting 3-dimensional shapes on a project. Several years ago I loaned one of my Rail Seat Back Trim prints for a Roadster to a friend, and because the prints used sweeps to layout a 3D compound radius, this person was looking at this print much like a mule looking at a new gate. The bottom line is a set of plans which would be that complicated would be of little use to the average novice woodworker and trying to make customers happy who paid for something they cannot use would be a headache at best.

[dmdeaton]

I have about 12 sets of wooden boat plans. The plans are to build only one boat from. And not sell afterwards. I am sure some have copied, most do not. I have built 2 boats from plans and the others are stashed in the basement floor joists. They are starting to digitize some of them now, and when you purchase online it becomes a instant download. You will get a lot of buyers of your patterns from persons who will never even cut a block of wood, just to have them. Some frame them and hang them in the den. You will still get the same amount of business from people buying your kits, as most do not have the skill or the tools to carve out these pieces. I would buy a set of patterns for my Briggs if they were available, not to use now, but to have them if I need to replace a piece in the future. My 2 cents

[sawzall]

brent... like you I have been digitizing parts for my own library and restoration efforts.. (woodie wagons, and parts that have proven difficult to obtain from others)

technology is always changing and honestly some of the discussion here (about efforts to thwart duplication) is now moot..

soon I'll be able to attend a show, take a few photos of a completed car, or part and digitize that part for use back in the shop.. with this type of capability the competition will continue to revolve around production in the least expensive location...

as for selling prints.. like you I have dealt with folks who want to borrow drawings, or parts to replicate pieces, and I have also a few original prints that use sweeps which makes me chuckle.. but as someone suggested MANY folks might buy plans SIMPLY to hang on the wall..

[Terry, NJ]

Hey guys, I have a less than complete set of original wood pieces that I "Rescued"from my 30 Town Sedan which I will give away to anyone who wants them, For Free! Just pick them up in Bucks County, Pa! The Rot was pretty bad but you can still get dimensions and locations off most of it. I also have some Ash which I sell for $25 a plank. Ash is getting rarer as the Asian Emerald Borer is killing all our Ash trees. Another import from China that we could do without!
Terry

[Karl Wescott]

An option, either as a strategic business decision or as a altruistic contribution to the hobby, is to place drawings in the "public domain".


We developed frame diagrams (NOT full blueprints) as a defense for fitting issues when we sold a fiberglass body and it did not fit the customers (most often incorrect) frame. We made the decision to generally not charge for them, using them as advertising, so have our name and copyright notice. We tend to be liberal about people re-using (Do not make a profit from selling the drawing, and attribute it to us).


Another strategy is for Club members to develop the drawings and contribute to the club, and access to the drawings would be a Club membership perk, much as any technical article in the "Restorer" or other Club publication.

[kajnhedge]

I need the plans for the cab of a '28 roadster PU. I have my own kiln dried wood and my own tools. When I purchased my PU it did not have a stick of wood in it. I was able to make the bed wood and the body blocks. I just need the inside of the cab. I would be willing to pay $50 for the plans.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I'd wager I get a couple phone calls a month by someone wanting plans to fabricate their own body wood, ...and it seems we see a couple inquiries a month here asking the same. I have thought several times about digitizing my patterns to create a set of plans for different bodystyles but here are two questions I am trying to research first;

.........What is a complete set of CAD drawings worth?


.........How do I keep piracy of reselling the plans from happening??



I guess my reasoning for asking this is do I even want the headache that I have perceived would be attached with this, ...and who would be a typical customer? There have been inquiries about purchasing wood plans for bodystyles such as a Roadster, and I have thought to myself how that is such a very simple kit that could be purchased for less than $175. I have wondered whether that person did not have the budget to pay the $175 for the kit, --or if they even had the skill or tools to actually fabricate from patterns. Would they even pay $50 for a set of Roadster plans? If they did, would they resell them on eBay or Fordbarn after they are finished using them?

Now think those same questions through using a Fordor or a Victoria as the example. Would they spend $500 to purchase a detailed set of plans? After I sold one or two sets of plans, would I see hobbyists copying my set and reselling them to recoup their investment?

.

The two key questions you are asking are the key!!

From my years in security clearance type work, what I can tell you if it is in print, someone will copy it, and if it is in a file, that you believe is untouchable, think again!

You help folks a lot on this forum! And you also have spent a lot of time and money and also refining wood pieces and the best kinds of wood to use at various points on these good ole Fords! In my opinion, I would stick with providing wood sets for folks and keep your plans for your use! Once they are shared, (unless you just wish to have them shared globally for free) they will become a pdf or a jpg or ?? and will be open to everyone in the public domain!

The real deal with these plans is the average jo blow like me would find them interesting but ???? Those who have a business would love to have a free resource as you are discussing.

[BillCNC]

Realistically, ... The plans would be worthless to most.

YES, it might help a few, but anyone who is serious about making such pieces will be able to generate their own drawings with ease. The folks it would help are only a select few with talent that THEY KNOW THEY ALREADY POSSES.

It takes a lot of knowledge and skill to reproduce these parts WITHOUT modern tools. If you have the proper modern tool's, ... again, ... you more than likely would be able generate your own drawings.

[Lew]

OK, so I've read most of the comments on this thread. I'm not one to post much out there as most everyone else seems to be quicker than me. I did a complete reconstruction of a model a mail truck in the 90's. I built a complete body using plans that were drawn form original parts, through the Postal A's group. This was no easy task, and it took me about 11 years to complete the truck, having not much to work with but some rusty iron hardware and rotted wood. Buying lumber in the rough sizes and then planing it down and making all the parts, angles and joints necessary was a very daunting task. It taught me an appreciation for woodworking beyond belief. My friends suggested that I make duplicate parts as I went along, and sell them to help offset my restoration. I did not do this because of the time involved. I guess my point is that if you have never tried to reproduce an original wood component exactly as it was made, you have no idea what is involved. If kits are available through a vendor and they fit correctly, then they are worth every penny that vendor is selling them for.

[denis4x4]

The '29 CCPU in my avatar has a 6-1/2" cab extention. Needless to say, there were no plans, drawings or kits for the wood. I was able to buy the door post wood and the front header from Bert's on an individual basis. The wood is white oak and was easy to work with. My tools include a planer, band saw, 10" table saw, joiner and a number of power hand tools. While my modifications might not be your cup of tea, it is not an impossible task to create the wood components for a Model A.

[Railcarmover]

Use 90 year old iron mountain ash body blocks as soft jaws for my vise..Ford combined so many distinct,complex trades in making the A when you stand back and consider it its fascinating,from chemical engineers to glass makers to wood workers to foundrymen.

[Rockabilly Rodder]

Why CAD Drawings? As an engineer to me that's too much trouble when just good old hand drafted three view dimentional drawings would suffice. Its not like you own the rights to the wood block design anyway. Besides, China does give a rats a$$ about copyright so if it were me I would just give them away. Would rather be know as being "cool" about it than make a mniscule profit at best.