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Old 06-14-2021, 12:26 AM   #1
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Major brake adjustment procedure request

I have only been able to find the first page of Ford's brake adjustment procedure for 1939+ brakes on-line, plus an additional helpful diagram, but no text. The text on the main page goes as far as step #1 in the major adjustment procedure and apparently continues after the CAUTION: note at the bottom of the page. What I am looking for is the rest of the instructions for the major brake adjustment procedure. Surely more follows than simply lining up the two dots on the lower adjusters to face each other? I am guessing that after doing that, the lower portion of the brakes shoes are adjusted in a similar fashion as the uppers, meaning until the drum locks up and then back off the adjusters?

Because we don't have the Ford manual to guide us, could some kind soul please scan the rest of the instructions and post them?

Thanks in advance!
Marshall
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Brake adjustment diagram.jpg (58.1 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg Assembly.jpg (40.5 KB, 32 views)

Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 06-14-2021 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:43 AM   #2
Tinker
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Geez.... a ton of us here have used 39 brakes. The manual is a guide. Relax all is good. I do own a original ford service manual 28-40 v8 fords with updates. Lancaster would be saying take it easy young buck. But in a kinder way.

Last edited by Tinker; 06-14-2021 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

If you are really worried about your brakes have the shoes been arched to the drum?
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Marsh……….Tink is correct. I went through 8 months of aggravation with my ‘40 brakes and had a hell of a time getting them to bleed. It may not have been the best way to do it, but I took the new shoes to the belt sander and sanded down to match the drums and then finally used a pressure bleeder to get the brakes bled. Are they perfect…..no but pretty good now. That leaflet is all your re going to find and you have to adjust each wheel a little at a time. It’s a pain in the ass, but that’s what you have !!

Mike
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:51 AM   #5
HDowse
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Marshall, here's the next page of instructions.
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File Type: pdf Page 37 Brakes.pdf (496.3 KB, 51 views)
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:41 AM   #6
19Fordy
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

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Here it is in full. The last 4 photos tell how to adjust the E-Brake.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC06174 (Small)best.jpg (79.5 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06175 (Small)best.jpg (78.6 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06176 (Small)best.jpg (70.3 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06177 (Small)best.jpg (72.3 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06178 (Small)best.jpg (80.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06179 (Small)best.jpg (72.5 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg DSC06181 (Small).JPG (55.7 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0931b.jpg (125.5 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5152b.jpg (57.0 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1684 (Large).jpg (61.4 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1685 (Large).jpg (63.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1686 (Large).jpg (60.8 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by 19Fordy; 06-14-2021 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:56 AM   #7
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Thanks, HDOWSE! That's just what the doctor ordered. I'll now plow ahead with this car.

To other posters, I haven't even gotten far enough yet to worry about the fit of the new brake linings vis-a-vis the brake drums. Unlike Model A woven linings that I have installed for the past 50+ years, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the molded linings for this early V8 were already shaped to fit the shoes exactly. The rivets almost seemed to be an afterthought to hold them in place. I realize that I may need to sand high spots on the brake material a little in order to get a nice fit and take advantage of as much surface area as possible. The drums did fit over the new linings, so that's a positive start.

But first things first. Our #1 problem has been getting the brakes to bleed and achieve a firm pedal. Adding new brake shoe linings was a means towards that end. Maybe with the new thicker linings, we'll be able to get the system to bleed properly.

As some of you who have been following the various threads I started about this car in the past month must surely recognize, you can see that as a Model A and T guy, I am way out of my element with this highly modified '32 Coupe - but rapidly learning. Because of so many questionable changes made to it, nothing is as it should be so that I can follow a standard step-by-step process to make things work. I first have to undo what the previous "mechanic" did and then go back and fix what he either sidestepped or replaced with a mix of later model year parts that I, of course, wouldn't recognize until you guys pointed out the problems. With all the terrific advice from this website, we are getting closer to actually having brakes!
Thanks again.
Marshall

UPDATE: Thanks to "19Fordy", too, for posting the rest of the instructions. I must have been typing my reply to "HDOWSE" while you were posting this information and didn't notice it when I went to post my reply. So, I missed your post until afterwards. 'Sorry...

Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 06-19-2021 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Missed posting
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:23 PM   #8
mike42
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Marsh ....

I had the same bleeding problem for several months, but finally bought a Motive Products Pressure Bleeder and bang.....bled right away and I have solid brakes !! It did take awhile to adjust though. You just have to keep fiddling with it.

Mike
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut View Post
I have only been able to find the first page of Ford's brake adjustment procedure for 1939+ brakes on-line, plus an additional helpful diagram, but no text. The text on the main page goes as far as step #1 in the major adjustment procedure and apparently continues after the CAUTION: note at the bottom of the page. What I am looking for is the rest of the instructions for the major brake adjustment procedure. Surely more follows than simply lining up the two dots on the lower adjusters to face each other? I am guessing that after doing that, the lower portion of the brakes shoes are adjusted in a similar fashion as the uppers, meaning until the drum locks up and then back off the adjusters?

Because we don't have the Ford manual to guide us, could some kind soul please scan the rest of the instructions and post them?

Thanks in advance!
Marshall
Marshal, The lower " adjusters" are just eccentrics to center the shoe in the drum. Adjust the upper adjuster until you get a drag, then raise or lower the shoe with the eccentric until it reduces the drag. Then repeat until the shoe is centered. The shoe will be centered when raising and lowering the shoe increases drag.

Bill
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:37 PM   #10
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Thanks for the clear explanation, Bill. That will help me wrap my mind around how this system works. I just couldn't understand what good the lower "adjusters" would be to set drum drag when the bottom 1/4 of each trailing brake shoe lining is missing. Now knowing these adjusters merely center the shoes inside the drum, I get it.
M.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:23 PM   #11
bobH
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Marshall, I see you mentioned 'molded' lining. Be careful. When I bought one of my cars (a 47), it had new molded brake lining. Turns out, it was 'hard' lining, and the resulting brake action was VERY poor. Like the 32 you have posted about, my 47 had a few issues to be addressed. And, one issue was the new, hard, lining. I eventually had a local 'friction' shop reline my shoes with a 'soft' lining, and the braking action was (and is) greatly improved. Just a suggestion....
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:43 PM   #12
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Yikes! We ordered the linings from the Dennis Carpenter catalog, the only material available. It is a hard brown material? I should think the people at Carpenter would know which brake linings to sell. Is this the wrong type? I sanded away some brake fluid that smeared on the surface when installing the shoes. It sanded away easily. I know there are several types of "hard" linings for our antique Fords. I sure hope the Carpenter linings are correct. I can take pictures tomorrow if this turns out to be an issue, although at this point, there's no turning back.
I am presently fighting yet another problem that is delaying bleeding the brakes. The right front drum fits on well and allows the outer bearing nut to be properly adjusted without locking the drum. It still spins freely. But the left side is another matter. When the outer nut is tightened, the drum locks against the backing plate. This is with the adjusters backed off. The outer bearing nut was only finger tight when I took things apart. Mr. Mechanic must have encountered the same problem and instead of finding out why the drum locked up and repairing the problem, he simply left the outer nut loose enough for the drum to spin, locking the nut in place with a large cotter pin. You can see the shiny trace of metal on the backing place outer circumference where the drum had been rubbing. I assume I need to put a thin spacer over the spindle between its stop ring and the inner bearing in order to move the drum outwards a bit? Or should the inner bearing race and bearing be replaced? Clearly something is worn to the point that the drum goes in too far. This happens occasionally with Model A front drums. A thin shim solves that problem. Is this a common wear point in V8 hydraulic brake drums, too?
Marshall
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:08 PM   #13
19Fordy
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

As a side point. I recall years ago reading that the original 1940 OEM Ford brake lining was .18 in. thick. I assume 1939 was the same.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:29 AM   #14
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

By the way, I tried mounting the left front drum without the brake shoes in place, just in case a brake shoe was interfering with the drum seating. The drum still locked up with the outer nut was tightened.
Marshall
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Need to take a good look at the spindle, where the inter bearing contacts. Might compare it to the other side. I would guess you need a new one. Have you tried switching the hubs side to side? That would eliminate them as the issue.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:11 AM   #16
tubman
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Maybe a bent backing plate?
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Old 06-15-2021, 01:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Maybe a worn inner bearing?

If you don't find anything wrong with the bearings, have your local drum-turner take a hair or two off the edge of the drum. Or if you aren't too fanatical, you could try it with a hand grinder.

When I used some new Carpenter shoes a few years ago I found the new shoe backer metal was a bit too thick. It caused the brass adjuster cam at the bottom of the shoe to be thinner than the shoe itself. Resulting in the shoe being locked in place when you are done with your adjustments and tighten those two nuts on the bottom.

I ended up using a hand grinder and "thinned" the metal a bit so the brass cam was thicker than the shoe. This allowed the fully tightened assembly to let the shoe rotate on the brass when the pedal is applied.

IIRC, the shoe pad material on the Carpenter shoes is rather thick too, and I actually had to sand a bit off at the top to even fit my drums over the shoes. Having thicker material is good if your drums have been cut a few times, but not good if you've got in-spec drums.
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Old 06-15-2021, 05:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

often overlooked when the drum hits the backing plate is the inner bearing some bearings will have several cups[the part in the hub] listed often the only change is their width [for different uses ]so hate to say it start stripping and checking if the hub is worn you can add a small shim behind the cup to correct this
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Marshal,
good hearing from yer.
Clem with a '30 Model A cabby and a 39 ford pickup/40Merc fordor convert.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Major brake adjustment procedure request

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike42 View Post
Marsh……….Tink is correct. I went through 8 months of aggravation with my ‘40 brakes and had a hell of a time getting them to bleed. It may not have been the best way to do it, but I took the new shoes to the belt sander and sanded down to match the drums and then finally used a pressure bleeder to get the brakes bled. Are they perfect…..no but pretty good now. That leaflet is all your re going to find and you have to adjust each wheel a little at a time. It’s a pain in the ass, but that’s what you have !!

Mike

Well the manual doesn't mention anything about arching the shoes. Sooo.
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