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Old 06-10-2021, 10:55 PM   #1
ETAModel
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Default Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Got the 30 Fordor going, took it to gas station first thing and filled her up with premium 100% gasoline. Then turned on speedbot and went for a LONG (for me) drive. My longest yet, 48 miles. Mostly county roads, some city but not much.

At the end of drive took her back to gas station and topped her off, to see how she did. She used 4.4 gallons, so roughly 10.5 MPG without using my calculator.

In my opinion...THAT SUCKS!

I had the throttle turned about 2/3 of a turn out. Seems I read somewhere that when your on the highway you can almost close the throttle jet and it will still run fine.

To prove it to myself I hit the local US Hwy and closed the fuel off, then cracked it open. She didn't hesitate or stall or nothing, ran like it had all day. BUT, when I got back in town and hit some stop signs she DEFINATELY needed more fuel going in, as she sputtered and almost stalled. I turned her back to 2/3 open and it ran fine in town.

The plugs look ancient, I need to pull them and at least clean them, and order some replacements.

Remember Guys, I have about a dozen drives under my belt, probably 200-250 miles total thus far, today excluded. So I am still a Newbie to the Great Model A.

Should I leave the throttle at 2/3 turn while she warm up and in town, and then close it down on the road?? I'm not worried about the Cost, I'm concerned about running out of gas! The Gas Gauge doesn't work, its on the list of repairs. But still, this is TEXAS, there's times you can drive a hour or more (in a modern car) any direction without seeing a gas station.

Thanks for your help thus far.
ET
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

The Fordor is a heavy Model A, and with mine, driving in town all the time, with lots of stop and go driving, I only get about 15-16 mpg. On the open road, and cruising 55 mph, with overdrive, I get 20-22 mpg. 10 mpg sounds quite low, even around town. Once warmed up, you should not have to adjust the GAV (not throttle). All Models are a little different, but many seem to like 1/4 turn open after warming up. I would do all the basics first: Check your points and gap, check the timing, pull spark plugs, maybe replace, clean and gap those. Another place to check would be your carburetor….make sure your jets are properly size. And at speed, your spark advance should be at least 3/4 down.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Thanks for the reply...I'll bite, what does GAV stand for? My old First Shirt told us if you don't know what an acronym means, then it doesn't apply to you. I think in this case he was wrong.
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Tuned B engine in my '30 Fordor running 18's and 3.54 gears and I get low 20's out of mine. And I don't hang around...

Couldn't afford to go anywhere at 10mpg!
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

I agree- 10 mpg does suck, but It sounds like it will be tough to get much more then 15 mpg out of your car.
so many variables and the biggest being the weight , as mentioned and the other question is, what condition is your engine in?


is it tired?
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

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thanks for the reply...i'll bite, what does gav stand for?
gas adjustment valve=gav:d
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

GAV is the Gas Adjusting Valve, the knob under the fuel tank in front of the passenger. It adjusts the carburetor.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:15 AM   #8
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

GAV: Gas Adjustment Valve.

Several things effect gas millage. The GAV should be turned in while cruising down the highway. The spark should be adjusted correctly and when cruising down the highway advanced a little. Make sure the points are adjusted correctly and the car is timed correctly. Also, just like in a modern car, how you drive can effect mileage. Keep the tires inflated to 35 psi. Overdrive helps and the gear ratio of the rearend will effect mileage. Years ago I changed out 4.11 gearing for 3.7 gearing to improve my coupe top end and mileage.
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Something that will probably help with you gas mileage is to stop using premium high octane fuel.
High octane fuel is designed to be harder to ignite. This is to reduce the tenancy for fuel to prematurely ignite in high compression engines. Model A's even with the higher compression heads are still a low compression engine. Put the lowest octane fuel you can into your car. It will give you more power and most likely better mileage.

In regards to the GAV as I understand it, it is not a good idea to close it all the way as it can cause the engine to run too lean and possibly cause engine damage.
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Possible dragging brake shoes on one or more wheels? See if all 4 turn freely when off the ground.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:17 AM   #11
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

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Old 06-11-2021, 10:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Wow 10MPG IS pretty bad on a Model A Ford.

Our '29 Tudor got 20 MPG all day long on at that time Sunoco regular 190. (1970's)

I realize a Fordor is a heavy car but you can get better than that.

Good luck, you will find the problem just take it one step at a time . The guys have some good tips on here for you.

Let us know how you come out.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

As a new owner of a Model A you should get a copy of the original owner’s manual. It explains everything you need to know for proper setup and driving. They’re available from all A suppliers.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

I have a 45B Deluxe Coupe and a 190A Victoria Coupe. Both have Model "B" engines with Model "A" Zenith carburetors, and no overdrive. Both have stock 3.78:1 differentials. The 45B has a 4.6:1 Compression Model "B" head, and the 190A has a 5.5:1 Model "A" type head.
The 45B Coupe gets 15 mpg and the 190A gets 18 mpg. I run both cars with the lowest cost 87 Octane with Ethanol gasoline I can find in Gulag New York.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

I tend to get mid to high teens in my Fordor with 3.78 gears and I live in hilly terrain and have a lead foot. Sounds like the carb is in need of some attention, GAV needing to be 2/3 of a turn out is suspect. Dragging brakes are a good suggestion too.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

As a newbie to the A I got worse fuel economy than I do now, mostly due to shifting habits and maybe not controlling the timing well enough. I noticed a big change when I retimed the engine as well.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:35 AM   #17
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

The GAV is the trim adjustment control for the high speed jet circuit in the carburetor. Adjust during cruise for best overall running down the road. The only other adjustments to it would be for higher or lower altitudes or temperatures. The idle circuit takes care of idling and it should be adjusted for best running at idle or best manifold vacuum if you have a MAP gauge.

Timing is very important. You want the spark to be able to reach the full measure of advancement as recommended by Ford Motor Co's publications but an operator of one of these cars has to know when to retard the spark not only for starting but also for pulling a load up a hill. Nothing is automatic on these old cars so it all has to be done by the operator to get best mileage.

The type of terrain can also make a difference. A car will get the best mileage in relatively flat land situations and at relatively slow speeds compared to modern highway speeds. How the milage is measured can also have an effect. The old speedometers need to be accurate or a GPS should be used unless it is a closed course of know distance values.
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

One thing I forgot to mention is that you will get better mileage with a higher compression head. But first check all things that others have suggested.
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

When I had my A I never was concerned with gas mileage. Having too much fun. ,When it got to a 1/4 tank I just put more in. My 40 coupe now with dual 97's and hi-comp heads is a gas guzzler (like my 300 C with the HEMI. Still having too much fun.


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Old 06-11-2021, 01:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
GAV is the Gas Adjusting Valve, the knob under the fuel tank in front of the passenger. It adjusts the carburetor.

I know what is it, and where its located, I just didnt know what GAV stood for..I was calling it the throttle...still learning the nomenclature
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
As a new owner of a Model A you should get a copy of the original owner’s manual. It explains everything you need to know for proper setup and driving. They’re available from all A suppliers.
So far I have Les Andrew's book on the model A, the first of the set. I'll get more soon. I'm surprised his book doesn't show info on type of plugs, ie heat range, gap for plugs, info on condensers, limited info on points, etc. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Guys at the club said its all I need.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronn View Post
I agree- 10 mpg does suck, but It sounds like it will be tough to get much more then 15 mpg out of your car.
so many variables and the biggest being the weight , as mentioned and the other question is, what condition is your engine in?


is it tired?
I would not call the motor Tired at all...I have had it up to 62 MPH, just to see where it would top out at. I usually drive around 45. I haven't checked compression, but I see no need, it isn't smoking or fouling plugs. I'm new to model A's, but worked around and on motors most my life.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
GAV: Gas Adjustment Valve.

Several things effect gas millage. The GAV should be turned in while cruising down the highway. The spark should be adjusted correctly and when cruising down the highway advanced a little. Make sure the points are adjusted correctly and the car is timed correctly. Also, just like in a modern car, how you drive can effect mileage. Keep the tires inflated to 35 psi. Overdrive helps and the gear ratio of the rearend will effect mileage. Years ago I changed out 4.11 gearing for 3.7 gearing to improve my coupe top end and mileage.
I quickly figured out the tires were low, so I got them to 35psi, certainly handles better, stops quicker.

There's about half a dozen guys in the A club who gather for coffee and politics every Saturday morning; they heard and test drove the Fordor, said the timing sounded right. I know its and easy fix, but had more pressing issues at first, like getting her to start.

My uncle had a 31 A, he hauled Nitro Glycerin for a living in it, and sent it to Dallas for an overdrive, new shocks and overhauled the brakes. I cant see spending the money on an overdrive to improve MPG, I'm not driving it to Houston twice a week like he was.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1crosscut View Post
Something that will probably help with you gas mileage is to stop using premium high octane fuel.
High octane fuel is designed to be harder to ignite. This is to reduce the tenancy for fuel to prematurely ignite in high compression engines. Model A's even with the higher compression heads are still a low compression engine. Put the lowest octane fuel you can into your car. It will give you more power and most likely better mileage.

In regards to the GAV as I understand it, it is not a good idea to close it all the way as it can cause the engine to run too lean and possibly cause engine damage.
I thought you needed to run Non-Ethanol gas in the model A, at least that's what I heard around here. I know there's a huge issue of "E" Vs "Non E" gas on the tractor forum (I have a 56 Farmall). Around here the only straight Gasoline is high octane, I guess for sportscar purists.

I'm also certain I can run E-10 gas in the Fordor and have few problems, unless it sits in the tank too long and turns to sludge.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
I have a 45B Deluxe Coupe and a 190A Victoria Coupe. Both have Model "B" engines with Model "A" Zenith carburetors, and no overdrive. Both have stock 3.78:1 differentials. The 45B has a 4.6:1 Compression Model "B" head, and the 190A has a 5.5:1 Model "A" type head.
The 45B Coupe gets 15 mpg and the 190A gets 18 mpg. I run both cars with the lowest cost 87 Octane with Ethanol gasoline I can find in Gulag New York.

So i take it you recommend running ethanol gas in the A? I know we ran anything that would burn in our JD model A tractor, it was called an All Fuel Model and ran best on Drip, unrefined low octane gas..
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
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I tend to get mid to high teens in my Fordor with 3.78 gears and I live in hilly terrain and have a lead foot. Sounds like the carb is in need of some attention, GAV needing to be 2/3 of a turn out is suspect. Dragging brakes are a good suggestion too.
The GAV doesn't NEED to be out 2/3 a turn to run properly on this A. That's what was recommended by a local expert. Yesterday I turned it almost off, still experimenting, and think I had it shut off too much as it bogged down in town.
Today I had it opened just a smidge ( the technical term ) more and it ran fine.
I didn't see a reference to setting the GAV in Andrews book...please help me here.
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Timing is very important. You want the spark to be able to reach the full measure of advancement as recommended by Ford Motor Co's publications but an operator of one of these cars has to know when to retard the spark not only for starting but also for pulling a load up a hill. Nothing is automatic on these old cars so it all has to be done by the operator to get best mileage.

This is new info for me...Are you saying climbing a hill or steep grade I should RETARD the spark ??? That might explain many things, like poor power on up grades, water overheating in radiator...

Guys please chime in on this!!
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
The GAV is the trim adjustment control for the high speed jet circuit in the carburetor. Adjust during cruise for best overall running down the road. The only other adjustments to it would be for higher or lower altitudes or temperatures. The idle circuit takes care of idling and it should be adjusted for best running at idle or best manifold vacuum if you have a MAP gauge.

Timing is very important. You want the spark to be able to reach the full measure of advancement as recommended by Ford Motor Co's publications but an operator of one of these cars has to know when to retard the spark not only for starting but also for pulling a load up a hill. Nothing is automatic on these old cars so it all has to be done by the operator to get best mileage.

The type of terrain can also make a difference. A car will get the best mileage in relatively flat land situations and at relatively slow speeds compared to modern highway speeds. How the milage is measured can also have an effect. The old speedometers need to be accurate or a GPS should be used unless it is a closed course of know distance values.

The speedometer doesn't work, as I said in the OP, I was using the Speedbot app to measure speed and mileage.
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
When I had my A I never was concerned with gas mileage. Having too much fun. ,When it got to a 1/4 tank I just put more in. My 40 coupe now with dual 97's and hi-comp heads is a gas guzzler (like my 300 C with the HEMI. Still having too much fun.


Paul in CT
Thanks for READING the OP...as I SAID, I am not concerned with the mileage from a money aspect. The gas gauge doesn't work and I really don't wanna run out of gas. There may only be 5543 square miles in your state, but there's One local Ranch here that's bigger than that. The whole state covers 268,597 square miles. Its not uncommon to drive hours without seeing a gas station.

So if the tank holds 11 gallons, (but 10.2 is all I can get in it), and I hear to run it past 1/4 tank is flirting with stalling (due to low gas pressure to the carb), then 70 miles is the max I can safely drive before looking for gas. Thats the distance to my favorite fish house and back.

If she got say 18 mpg then I could safely drive 125 miles, quite an improvement.


BTW, how big is the tank on your 300C ??
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

I usually get 17-18 around town and 20 out on the open roads, which are mostly country roads and not actual freeways. Once in a while I will get a surprise and the last tank was 22. Stock tranny and rear end, with no overdrive. I think putting the HC head on added an average of at least 1 mpg, but that is not based on any scientific data. I cannot tell any mileage gain or loss based on which kind of gas I use. I generally put non-ethanol in it for the winter when sitting, but this time of year I don't bother. Particularly since when we are out on tours some towns don't carry it at all. Early on in my Model A ownership of about 4 years now, I was getting around 13-15, but I played around with the timing, spark plugs and driving habits that all taken together has turned up some decent mileage numbers. Oh, and by the way, if your speedometer/odometer is reading a lot too slow, the resulting mpg stats will suffer too. <edit> I see now you are using an app for the miles, disregard the speedometer issue. <edit>
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:58 PM   #31
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This whole topic is why they engineered carbs to do away with adjustments. We get distracted waving to people and blowing our horns and just enjoying the drive. This is the Model A experience where you should be paying attention and occasionally making carb adjustments to suit the driving conditions. Eventually, we get used to doing things correctly with our Model As and it does drive more efficiently. In the mean time, just have fun and fill it up before you start a tour. Ed
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Changing from E10 to regular no E fuel may require a GAV adjustment. If you run alcohol, the milage will decrease. A person could likely run E85 but it would get even worse milage. A lot of the Buckeys stations sell regular no E fuel.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

I get about 14 mpg no matter what kind of gas I use. All stock, Zenith carb. I haven’t noticed any diff between E and non-E except the price, which is significant in Oregon.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:06 PM   #34
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This A has a Tillotson carb. Not sure if there's any large difference.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

The exact position of the GAV for optimal running varies from car to car
Each of the 4 Model A's I have owned is slightly different but somewhere around a quarter of a turn open is about right. Once set I don't touch it (literally for years ) other than to pull it out to choke for starting . If its running ok at speed but not at stop then I suspect its a carburettor issue rather than the GAV -I have no experience with Tillotsons but they apparrently work well if set up properly but the original Zenith works well for me and is very simple
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:49 PM   #36
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
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As a new owner of a Model A you should get a copy of the original owner’s manual. It explains everything you need to know for proper setup and driving. They’re available from all A suppliers.

Here is an online pdf file.

http://www.palmbeachas.com/Model-A-I...ion-Manual.pdf


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Old 06-11-2021, 07:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ETAModel View Post
Thanks for READING the OP...as I SAID, I am not concerned with the mileage from a money aspect. The gas gauge doesn't work and I really don't wanna run out of gas. There may only be 5543 square miles in your state, but there's One local Ranch here that's bigger than that. The whole state covers 268,597 square miles. Its not uncommon to drive hours without seeing a gas station.

So if the tank holds 11 gallons, (but 10.2 is all I can get in it), and I hear to run it past 1/4 tank is flirting with stalling (due to low gas pressure to the carb), then 70 miles is the max I can safely drive before looking for gas. Thats the distance to my favorite fish house and back.

If she got say 18 mpg then I could safely drive 125 miles, quite an improvement.


BTW, how big is the tank on your 300C ??

This running board setup may be an option.

https://images.app.goo.gl/RCUUJNP78QNGGygx6


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Old 06-11-2021, 07:28 PM   #38
nkaminar
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

ET,

Fix your gas gauge. It probably just needs a new float. Easy to do and you don't have to drain all the gasoline out of the tank to fix it.

Fix your speedometer. Test it with an electric drill with an adapter to insert into the device. You may just need a new speedometer cable. You may have to run the drill motor in reverse.

The spark has to be adjusted depending on the circumstances. It is a mater of testing the adjusting lever position. There is a position where retarding the spark will slow down the motor but advancing it will not make a change. This is the knee in the advance curve. You need to experiment to find the knee for different conditions.

Keep a log. I have a small note book that I keep in the car and record odometer reading and the amount of gasoline I buy each time. I also record things like oil changes or any other things of note.

Pumping up the tires to 35 psi will help your mileage. You may try another drive. Park the car on a flat place and try pushing the car. It should push fairly easy. If you cannot push it look for the cause.
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Last edited by nkaminar; 06-11-2021 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:56 PM   #39
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Good comments above.

I may be confused, but my GAV controls fuel to the Cap jet, which is the mid range jet, above idle up to about 35 mph. Or so I thought.

The Zenith carburetor hinges its float perpendicular to the center line of the car, and therefore when applying the brakes to stop, the float will dip and rise as gas sloshes in the float bowl. On my car, I sometimes run the GAV at 3/8 turn open rather than 1/4 turn to alleviate this. I run at 1/4 when at higher speeds.

I'd like to add a bit different description for using the spark control.

Count your notches/bumps on the control from top to bottom. There are 10 or 11. Each mark is 3.6-4 degrees of crankshaft timing advance, 40 degrees total. The lever on the distributor moves only 20 degrees properly adjusted because the distributor turns at 1/2 engine speed. A 4 cylinder engine fires a cylinder every 180 degrees of crank rotation, all 4 cylinders in 720 degrees or 360 x 2 complete revolutions.

The Ford information times the Model A engine at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke of cylinder #1. You place the spark control all the way up before setting this timing. This will be the maximum retard position.

You always start the car in this retarded position. This protects the starter and the teeth on the starter ring from kick back and possibly damaging one, the other or both. It also protects a rookie that misuses the hand crank from breaking his thumb, wrist or arm. It makes it easier for the starter and the battery as they don't have to overpower the compression of a rising piston.

After the engine starts I immediately advance the spark control 2 or 3 bumps. And from then on, when driving I use a formula given by an old salt that was an old salt older than myself. Eh, a long time ago, too. For each 5 mph driving speed, lower/advance the spark control 1 bump. 30 mph = 6, 40 = 8, etc.

It is my understanding that the Model A engine cannot make use of more than 32 degrees of timing advance, but that is beyond my knowledge level as to why. I might try a full 10 or 11 bumps if I was going 55 or 60 after say, robbing a bank ... and then only if coppers were hot on my tail and shooting.

In central Illinois it is pretty flat with only occasional hills. If climbing a fair grade in high gear at a low speed, I retard the timing a couple bumps to prevent spark knock as someone else stated in a previous reply.

Some folks time their engine with the spark lever advanced 1 or 2 bumps. When placed in the full up position then, the engine fires 4 to 8 degrees after TDC. This adds further protection for someone using a hand crank, and I think makes a very slow idle possible. I have not tried this myself to see about the idle. Someone else might comment on that.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:41 PM   #40
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shew01 View Post
Here is an online pdf file.

http://www.palmbeachas.com/Model-A-I...ion-Manual.pdf


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Thats great info, thanks a lot, its now on my desktop.
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:00 AM   #41
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

A few points worth making.

1. This Model A isn't mine; I am the driver and mechanic, so repairs/upgrades have to be approved by the owner. He's fine with most of my recommendations, but thought I'd mention that.
2. The notches on the steering column for the throttle and spark are long gone. I posted about this 18 months ago, but haven't made any changes to it due to more pressing issues and time limitations So I just move the spark up and down to what seems right. It isn't repeatable, except at max settings.
3. Other than youtube videos and anecdotal stories about operating the Ford A I have had very little "instructions" on the operations of said vehicle. The manual provided by Shew01 is a Godsend, and Will be studied laboriously.

I'm plan on pulling the plugs and looking/cleaning them, then taking her ( I haven't named the car yet) out in the morning and trying retarding the spark when climbing a hill or under a load, and not advancing the spark as far as I have been. As I said, I was under the impression that you pulled both levers down for max speed/power.

Thanks for all the help and info.
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Old 06-12-2021, 01:16 PM   #42
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

A good article about setting the spark lever at http://model-a.org/use_carb_check_timing.html
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 06-12-2021, 09:13 PM   #43
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
A good article about setting the spark lever at http://model-a.org/use_carb_check_timing.html
What a great idea...I wish I had thought of that. I'll just check the factory tachometer in the dash to confirm it's running twice the idle speed....oh Snap!!!
😁
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:39 PM   #44
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETAModel View Post
What a great idea...I wish I had thought of that. I'll just check the factory tachometer in the dash to confirm it's running twice the idle speed....oh Snap!!!
😁
For someone asking for an endless amount of help, you have a bad attitude.
If you have been working on cars for some time, you can tell when it is about doubled in RPM. Or you could use a tune-up/diagnostic tachometer that will give you RPM. You may need to hook it up to a 12 volt battery then use the spark plug wire pickup on the Model A.
And by the way, no one cares that Texas is a big state, they are just trying to help you.
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:45 AM   #45
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For someone asking for an endless amount of help, you have a bad attitude.
If you have been working on cars for some time, you can tell when it is about doubled in RPM. Or you could use a tune-up/diagnostic tachometer that will give you RPM. You may need to hook it up to a 12 volt battery then use the spark plug wire pickup on the Model A.
And by the way, no one cares that Texas is a big state, they are just trying to help you.

I apologize if it sounded like a bad attitude. I was trying to add some levity and humor to a project that has caused aches, pains and sweat. I thought the emoji would be a clue I was joking.

As to the size of the state, my poorly illustrated point was its easy to wind up in the middle of nowhere and at 10mpg I'd need gas. I'm trying to increase the mpg, that's all. Most my life people have told me the Model A would get 20 mpg, that's what I was trying to get to.
The new plugs surely will help, and I'm gonna add some E15 gas to the tank, and see what happens.

Again, my apologies if I offended anyone.

Et
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Old 06-13-2021, 12:14 PM   #46
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

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One more thing - your sample size is very small and inaccurate. You may not have been precise about re-filling to the same point in the tank. GPS has induced errors that vary. Your speedometer doesn't work. You only went 40 miles.

Try a much longer trip with known distance off mapquest or similar, and fill up at the end. That will give you a more accurate assessment.

PS. Throw a 5 gallon container of gas on the luggage rack, or make a temporary wooden bracket. Boom! Longer range.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:41 PM   #47
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One more thing - your sample size is very small and inaccurate. You may not have been precise about re-filling to the same point in the tank. GPS has induced errors that vary. Your speedometer doesn't work. You only went 40 miles.

Try a much longer trip with known distance off mapquest or similar, and fill up at the end. That will give you a more accurate assessment.

PS. Throw a 5 gallon container of gas on the luggage rack, or make a temporary wooden bracket. Boom! Longer range.

Your totally correct, one drive does not make a very good sample. I'm still learning this car, and getting help along the way. The manual says start no more than 1 turn on GAV to crank, then no more than 1/4 turn on the GAV on the highway. I had it closer to 2/3 turn on highway. I put new plugs in yesterday, gonna confirm timing this week, and take her on the road again. Hopefully I will be better at this.

I also got a gas can, hope I never need it.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:46 PM   #48
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Most likely dragging brake. If the points are too close it hurts performance a lot. The block that rides on the cam sometimes wears down quite a bit.

The GAV open 1/8 to 1/4 should be fine. Check to assure that the bolts holding the carb on the intake are "snug", not tight, "snug".
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:53 PM   #49
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

BTW, I put her in neutral and pushed her up and down the driveway pretty easy yesterday, I don't think anything was dragging and didn't hear anything. I think keeping the spark all the way down, uphill and downhill, wasn't helping, as was the GAV too far open. I'll change those too items and see how she does.
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Old 06-13-2021, 05:05 PM   #50
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneBob View Post
For someone asking for an endless amount of help, you have a bad attitude.
If you have been working on cars for some time, you can tell when it is about doubled in RPM. Or you could use a tune-up/diagnostic tachometer that will give you RPM. You may need to hook it up to a 12 volt battery then use the spark plug wire pickup on the Model A.
And by the way, no one cares that Texas is a big state, they are just trying to help you.
Yup.
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:34 PM   #51
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

ET, here is my input.

Did you check the point gap, should be 0.020?
You are going to check the timing, good.
You pumped up the tires, good.
You are going to do a longer run or multiple runs to check the mileage, good. (Carry extra gas in case you run dry.)
Are you doing your mileage test at a constant speed of 45 to 50 mph on a level highway?
You checked for resistance by pushing the car and there was none, good.
You are going to try turning in the GAV (1/4 turn open or shut) while cruising at a constant speed on the highway, good.
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:07 PM   #52
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

nkaminar,
Good summary, sounds like ETA is working the issues like you stated and will find the answer.
For what it is worth, my Tudor has never done well on mpg's but I am always pushing her at 60 or 65 mph. It is as aerodynamic as a brick.
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:40 PM   #53
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ET, here is my input.

Did you check the point gap, should be 0.020?
You are going to check the timing, good.
You pumped up the tires, good.
You are going to do a longer run or multiple runs to check the mileage, good. (Carry extra gas in case you run dry.)
Are you doing your mileage test at a constant speed of 45 to 50 mph on a level highway?
You checked for resistance by pushing the car and there was none, good.
You are going to try turning in the GAV (1/4 turn open or shut) while cruising at a constant speed on the highway, good.
Flat and level around here is almost impossible. Gently rolling hills is more like it. The hand throttle at almost wide open runs around 49, so a smidge off that gives me 44-45 MPH on a reasonably flat stretch. The points gap at .021, is that close enough? The timing wrench is on the way.

If I keep driving it I might just get it figured out...finger's crossed.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:24 AM   #54
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

0.021 close enough.

If you are only getting 49 mph out of the old girl then there is something wrong. Sounds like the timing is off, especially if you have the spark lever all the way down and it does not make a difference. Review how to set the spark lever when driving and do that after you check the timing.
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:01 PM   #55
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

ETA stated hand throttle. Does the hand throttle give you full throttle? I never tried it. He may have more mph above the hand throttle limit?

The timing wrench is a big help but make sure the advance lever is all the way up before adjusting the timing. You can drive yourself crazy with that mistake.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
0.021 close enough.

If you are only getting 49 mph out of the old girl then there is something wrong. Sounds like the timing is off, especially if you have the spark lever all the way down and it does not make a difference. Review how to set the spark lever when driving and do that after you check the timing.

I am sorry I was not more clear. If I use the foot feed I have reached 62 miles an hour per Speedbot and the engine has plenty of Pep. Using the hand throttle I'll get it up almost to 50 but not quite. I've been using the hand throttle to act as a cruise control.
This is a strong motor, IMHO, it just needs someone who knows what they're doing.

Last edited by ETAModel; 06-14-2021 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:30 PM   #57
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

ETA, you seem to be juggling a few things with this car so I will add one more thing for you to worry about. Check your fan blade. You can search on the forum to see if your blade should be replaced. Better to replace it if it is suspect because a broken fan blade will ruin your day.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:40 PM   #58
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

Most of the stock engines effciency issues come from low compression,under fueling and manual timing.
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Old 06-20-2021, 04:40 PM   #59
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Default Re: Longest trip yet...MPG suck!

So what was it?
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