Rotator Valves

[bbrocksr]

Russ/40 The Retainers are different because the keepers lock into the early retainer.
The later retainer has a recessed area that the cone fits into loosely so it can rotate.
The spring is also different.
Bill

[Binx]

Rotators be damned! I want to see Ron run that motor with the head off!!

Lonnie

[Ol' Ron]

I'd like to see it to. There was one on UTube back awhile and a friend of Rumbleseat has one. I have a junk engine I'm putting to gether to test ignition systems, maybe that would do.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

You can run a flathead with the head off, interesting sight. Maybe I could do that anf put a rotator on one valve and non on the other and watch. Love it.

Here u go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDtBG...eature=related

R

[Binx]

Cool Video!! I guess we'll give Ron a pass ......but those valves weren't rotating.....
Lonnie

[Vergil]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Decided to see what the valves were doing on my 8ba after watching this thread so this morning I pulled two plugs and scratched the top of the exhaust valves. Fired it up and ran it for three or four minutes, shut down and checked the valves to see what had happened, the marks were in the same place, didn't move. Running 1.5" proflo ss valves, Schneider cam and springs (shimmed), non rotator keepers and adjustable lifters. Now I know what they are doing .... they are just going up and down with no round and round.

Vergil

[Russ/40]

Hmmmmm, now what does that tell us about the springs causing rotation? Tells me that's not happening. I guess it's also telling us the follower won't turn the valves.
Have we answered all our questions, or I guess, my misconceptions

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Hmmmmm, now what does that tell us about the springs causing rotation? Tells me that's not happening. I guess it's also telling us the follower won't turn the valves.
Have we answered all our questions, or I guess, my misconceptions

Only tells us that his don 't rotate nothing else.Others will chime in.
I know of a case where a intake manifold riser was built to be able to view valve train while engine was running due to the fact that the engine had a squeak when it ran with all the belts and fuel pump disabled and the valve train was suspect.Don't think they ever pinpointed the squeak!

R

[bbrocksr]

Russ/40, If you read Vergil's post again he states that he used "non rotator" keepers which is why his didn't rotate.
Non rotators don't use the cone and related retainer which allows rotation.
Bill

[Ol' Ron]

Thanks Vergil, I owe you one.

[rotorwrench]

I've pulled appart a lot of aircraft engines which are designed to rotate the followers. You can sure tell when there are some that don't rotate. Thr follower ends up with the distict marks of the cam lobe worn in to one spot. On valves it is harder to tell for obvious reasons. Some rotate and some don't. The Ford final design of flathead 239/255 retainers were designed to aid in that rotation only. It's no guarantee that they will keep doing it for the whole service period. If you start adding different cams and stronger springs into the mix, it's any persons guess about whether they will rotate or not.

Hell I'm just happy when they aren't sticking.

Kerby

[Mart]

Here u go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDtBG...eature=related

R

*************************************************

That's my video! that's my Birmingham accent too!.

I never thought to look before, but I can't see my valves rotating, but then again I assume they are not rotator type assemblies - they are stock 8BA.

I looked at the diagram of the rotator and it seems to me the collet is unloaded off the valve by a few thou every time allowing the valve to rotate if it wants to.

All good interesting stuff.

Mart.

[Binx]

Mart, way cool! I showed the video to my 24-year-old know-it-all son and he was stunned -- I mean speechless. When he came-to, he offered a lot of explanations, all wrong and I never told him how it actually worked.

Lonnie

[blown49]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Hmmmmm, now what does that tell us about the springs causing rotation? Tells me that's not happening. I guess it's also telling us the follower won't turn the valves.
Have we answered all our questions, or I guess, my misconceptions

Guess I'll chime in here with and observation. I bought a single mushroom valve, split valve guide, spring and lower retainer/lock along with a '49-'50 valve, valve guide, spring, lower spring retainer, and locks. I also bought a '51-53 valve, valve guide, spring, lower spring retainer, bell shaped retainer and locks from Mac VP last year. I think some of the parts came from Joblot.

I noticed after assembling the '51 thru '53 assembly that when I take it back apart the bell shaped retainer (rotator??) is stuck to the locks and must be tapped loose to remove the locks. That sorta tells me the rotation occurs between the bell retainer and the lower spring retainer.

Along similar lines some of the valves have an annular ring around the valve stem, under the head which for lack of of a better term I'll call a "bump stop" for this discussion. I have an old used mushroom valve with a bump stop and the new one from Mac does not have one. The '49-'50 I bought doesn't have one but the '51-'53 does. I called Joblot and ordered a '51-'53 valve that doesn't have one. Did all the original valves have bump stops?

TIA
Jim

[Russ/40]

Every Ford valve I have ever seen has the feature you describe. I have always believed it served the purpose of holding an entire valve assembly together with spring tension. It had to do with how Ford assembled engines. I don't believe it serves any other purpose.

[flatjack9]

I would agree. If it doesn't have the stop, it is aftermarket.