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Old 12-07-2018, 07:18 PM   #1
Krylon32
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Default Tig Welding

I asked this Question over on the HAMB. I've been building custom customer 28-48 Ford chassis since 1982. I have developed a health problem that requires the installation of a defibrillator. Do any of you have a devise or know anyone with a devise that is still tig welding? I'm down to just tacking with a certified welder coming in to do the finish welding. I'm getting mixed signals from my health professionals. While I'm almost 74 I am not ready to be put out to pasture yet. Your responses would be appreciated. Gary at Cornhusker Rod And Custom
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:21 PM   #2
JSeery
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Default Re: Tig Welding

Interesting question. I'll see what my son has to say.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tig Welding

What do the makers of that particular medical device have to say about high freq interference?
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Tig Welding

https://www.bostonscientific.com/con...g_20160325.pdf

https://www.bakersgas.com/weldmyworl...nd-pacemakers/
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Tig Welding

According to Miller Welding Co. it's not safe to ARC, MIG or TIG if you wear a defibrillator.
The electromagnetic field makes it unsafe.
Please play it safe as we don't want to lose a good man.

https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...ers-with-icd-s

https://www.arc-zone.com/blog/carmen...h-a-pacemaker/
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tig Welding

NO! from what I have read, as 19Fordy states, it is NOT safe. There isn't a cardiologist in America that would OK it.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Tig Welding

P.S. I forgot to mention I fried a hearing aid while using my TIG on aluminum. A hearing aid I can live with and get another. Fried defibrillator for my heart, not good.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tig Welding

No tig or mig welding permitted is what the signal I'm getting from my cardio guy and other sources. There is a lot written on the net about this. Also some problems with battery operated tools, and even some power cord tools such as grinders and drills? I think I'm good enough to tack my chassis with a gas welder as I always have a good fit of the components. This isn't gonna beat me, I'll just have to go in a different direction? Forgot, It's a law here in Nebraska that if the devise goes off your grounded from driving for 6 months. Gives you something to think about!

Last edited by Krylon32; 12-07-2018 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: Tig Welding

My friend Dan is a 83 year old master fabricator & welder. When they put the device in to maintain his heart rate, he was told to quit TIG welding. He had taught his son Mike well, and he does the welding for Dan now.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:08 PM   #10
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: Tig Welding

Perhaps you can go back to the way I used to weld (and still do on occasion ) back in the Early 1950's.
Every thing in small gage sheet metal was oxy/acy welded.
A good set of aircraft torches or the HenRob low pressure torch along with a little practice can produce some excellent results.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Tig Welding

My aunt worked for Medtronics and recently retired. She had to present during the surgeries to calibrate the devices before the surgeons sewed up the patients. So I wanted to see what Medtronics recoomends. Their website and suggest that if you keep the welding under 160 amps you should be okay. I wouldn't wrap the cables around your chest no matter what the amperage is! They do tell you to keep the device two-feet away from the arc. That might be a little hard to do.

The doctors probably don't know difference between TIG, MIG and Stick welding. They are going tell you to stay away from all of it because of the liability.

Do your own research so you can make an educated decision. If you can TIG weld following their recommendations you should be okay.

https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/pati...questions.html

Welding and Chainsaws
Q: I read in my patient manual that I should avoid welding. Why?
A: Unlike most other household power tools, welding with currents above 160 amps may have a higher tendency to temporarily affect the normal function of your pacemaker or implantable defibrillator.
Q: What if I may need to use a welder?
A: It is recommended you avoid using welding currents above 160 amps. Follow the safety precautions below to minimize the risk of interfering with your heart device while welding with currents under 160 amps.
Welding Safety Precautions
Limit welding to currents less than 160 amps
Work in a dry area with dry gloves and shoes
Maintain a 2-foot (60 centimeter) distance between the welding arc and heart device
Keep the welding cables close together and as far away as possible from your heart device. Place the welding unit approximately 5 feet from the work area.
Connect the ground clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible. Arrange the work so the handle and rod will not contact the metal being welded if they are accidentally dropped.
Wait several seconds between attempts when having difficulty starting a weld
Work in an area that offers firm footing and plenty of room for movement
Work with an informed person who understands these suggestions
Immediately stop welding and step away from the area if you start feeling lightheaded, dizzy, or you believe your implantable defibrillator has delivered a shock
Since welding equipment may temporarily affect the normal operation of your heart device, any decision you make to use this equipment should be made in consultation with your heart doctor. Your doctor can advise you as to the degree of risk these responses pose for your medical condition.
Aprons or vests will not effectively shield your pacemaker or implantable defibrillator from the electromagnetic energy generated by welding equipment.

Last edited by Flathead Fever; 12-07-2018 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Tig Welding

As a 45 year vetran of welding . If the doctor said today to quit welding , I would . Not worth taking a chance to not be able to complete the project.
Let someone do this for you.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Tig Welding

" Maintain a 2-foot (60 centimeter) distance between the welding arc and heart device"
Interesting Medronics warning.
Need long arms and good eyesight.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tig Welding

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
" Maintain a 2-foot (60 centimeter) distance between the welding arc and heart device"
Interesting Medronics warning.
Need long arms and good eyesight.
That was my thought too. Like I said before,how you going to maintain a 2-foot distance at 160 amps. You could do it with a stick welder but not a TIG or MIG weld.

What's is the least amount of amperage you can tack-weld your chassis with? If you can get away with 75 amps and a one-foot distance you might be okay but we can't guess at this! Is the EMF distance cut in half if the amperage is halved? The length of time of the weld effects the EMF. The type of metal being welded effects the EMF. I'd hate to see him give up chassis building if it turned out tack welding with 75 amps was safe. The manufacturer of the defibrillator would be the one to contact.

Here is a different heart devices warning. Apparently short bursts of welding increases the EMF. So tack welding could be a problem. I hate it when there is no definitive answer. The best thing to do is to not risk it until you do some more research.

I like their advice, "should you faint, stop welding".

• Wear nonconductive gloves, such as dry leather, fireproof cloth, or rubber gloves. Dry shoes are also advised.
• Do not work in a wet or damp area.
• Ensure that all equipment is properly grounded.
• Do not use current settings that are higher than necessary. Never exceed 400 Amperes.
• Connect the "ground" clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible. • Keep the cables close together by twisting them around each other.
• Position the welding machine and excess cable away from the device wearer.
• Do not weld using rapid, repeated short bursts. Wait about 5 seconds between each weld. When having difficulty starting a weld on a dirty surface, do not strike the rod in a rapidly repeated manner. Wait about 5 seconds between each attempted start.
• If you feel lightheaded, dizzy or faint, immediately stop the weld, lay the rod down and move away from the welding machine.
• Arrange your work in advance so that if the handle and rod should be dropped because of a dizzy spell, they will not drop into the metal being welded. For similar reasons, do not work on a ladder or in a cramped, confined location.
• Do not work alone. Work only in the presence of someone who understands these recommendations.
• Avoid being near spot-welding equipment if it does not use more than five seconds between

Last edited by Flathead Fever; 12-08-2018 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 03:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Tig Welding

Little interesting to read the recomendations from the manufacturer...if i would have guessed the EMF from the cables should be the least problem...but if that is the problem adding a shield around the cable and grounding it would take care of the problem.
The arc itself is not easy to do anything about other then keeping current low...The HF start may be another source of interference.
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: Tig Welding

I'm thinking, why couldn't they make a shielded vest that would absorb stray EMF?
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: Tig Welding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Miller View Post
I'm thinking, why couldn't they make a shielded vest that would absorb stray EMF?
They started making them many years ago
Attached Images
File Type: jpg armor.jpg (20.8 KB, 620 views)
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Tig Welding

With all the possible downside; I guess a torch would be the appropriate choice.


Maybe there will be a change in future hardware that will make them less sensitive to outside interference.

Friend had to sit out for a while, until his initial pacemaker could be changed out to different one, that permitted him to continue tig welding.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: Tig Welding

I say: WHY take the chance?
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Tig Welding

Chain mail would be a better shield than solid armor. Shielded wires are used a lot in aviation to protect communications systems from outside "noise interference" or EMF. The shielding wire mesh is tied to ground on both ends of the wire. Reciprocating engines have shielded high tension leads where she shield is grounded on both ends. The P-leads are also shielded between the ignition switch and the mags as well as the retard starting vibrators. All this stuff is to allow the NAV/COM radios and NAV devices to function normally.


There may be a way to fabricate a shielded outer wear that would be effective but it would have to be studied and tested to find out what the best combination of materials would be. It would likely be a metal wire woven cloth that could be grounded in a manner that might be effective. The government has done and is still doing a lot of research on EMF shielding due to the possibility of atomic devices or special EMF generating equipment being used as weapons.
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