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Old 10-27-2017, 03:07 PM   #1
jdpaxton
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Default 33 ford with muncie

I am going to install a Muncie 4sp behind the 59AB in my 33 using speedway adapter. I did this to a 32 and minimally had to alter the crossmember. Is this the same in a 33 with little trimming?
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

My guess is that you're going to run into a lot more complexity on the 33 - due to the way the center XMember comes together - then you also have the issue of having room for the shifter. What most folks do is drill the rivets out of the original 33 frame and remove the stock x-member, then fabricate a lower transmission mount. I believe that 'Chassis Engineering' has a kit already fabricated for this purpose. One thing to think about is that you will definitely weaken the frame - but with the horsepower of a 59AB, probably not an issue.

Another approach that is very popular is putting a T5 5-speed behind it (as it has a top-mounted shifter - no side linkage to screw with). You'll find this an easier situation to fit into there (at least I think so). Good luck and take some pictures!
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:08 PM   #3
Lawrie
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Why not just put the later guts (48)in the 33 box,no mods to any thing.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:07 AM   #4
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

It would have to be a very slow day and I would have to have done everything else on the car before I would consider changing to a Muncie. My choice would be to put the later gears ('39 and up) into your box. Is the transmission giving you trouble, rebuild it with later gears? Remember you are also going to need to convert to an open drive. If you are running stock wire wheels (I like either stock or Kelsey's) you will need to adapt them to the later rear end (which may not be easy). Another thought of something you might be trying to improve by changing the transmission, do you have a good ratio in the rear end? How about some pictures of your car? Final thought, if I was upgrading the transmission to a modern one I would pay a few extra bucks up front and get one with an overdrive top gear.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 10-28-2017 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Open drive transmission will require a lot of work unless the car is already modified. I've seen some pretty butchered up frames from some installations. There is aftermarket fabricated stuff to deal with it but that stuff is getting into the HAMB territory.
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Thanks for all of the input. The 33 tranny is an unknown except for running 30 ft in first gear. Reverse same. Actually the 4sp Muncie is a wonderful enhancement. My earlier 32 had 3.55`s and with the M21 took on a whole new life. (however I would bet the 33 has the super low original gear set) I also machined up the open driveline axle parts so that is not an issue. Other than juiced brakes and the 4speed, I don`t plan on any other alterations. (Probably will have to do a radius rod setup at rear) Yup stock 17 inchers. I sawed off a Model A shifter handle from a very rusty shifter, flattened one end and drilled the appropriate 2 holes for the Competition Plus shifter. I rebent the A handle to look original, plated it and added the 37 shifter ball. Flathead Heaven. Wish I had her back. I will try and get a picture of my latest double trey and post. Thanks
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Your 33 probably has 4.11 gears in it. Since you've been down the path before - you know the deal. The only reason I brought up the T5 is that with the top-shifter and no side-linkage, you'll find it to be a cleaner installation and less modifications in the center area of the frame. Also, why not have overdrive if you're going to all the rest of the trouble.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Well I`m not against using a T-5. I usually go with what I have around but sure, why not. So I did a bit of looking on ebay for some info and first thing I noted was the S10-15 has the shifter more forward than the Ford. Also they make distinction between electric and mechanical speedo. So does anyone no what I need for year S10-15 and still get the mecahanical speedo? Thanks
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpaxton View Post
Well I`m not against using a T-5. I usually go with what I have around but sure, why not. So I did a bit of looking on ebay for some info and first thing I noted was the S10-15 has the shifter more forward than the Ford. Also they make distinction between electric and mechanical speedo. So does anyone no what I need for year S10-15 and still get the mecahanical speedo? Thanks
The info in the link BELOW......

https://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebl...onversion.html

.........is a huge start in understanding the "mechanics" of this swap. But there is far more to consider than the basics. What you probably should consider (for USABLE gear ratios) is finding an '83-'87 Camaro V8 NON-WORLD CLASS (NWC) T5 with the 2.95 1st gear set. Build it using the S-10 MAIN SHAFT (which is also NWC) and the S-10 mechanical speedo tail shaft housing, which was produced from 1983-'86. It will all bolt-together. One more thing to consider which many people do not realize is that the CHEVY T5s all have 27-splines on the output shaft, whereas the Fords all have 28-splines. In other words, this makes it impossible to utilize Ford plastic speedo gears on a Chevy output shaft, or vice versa. I can possibly help you with more T5 "trivia", as well as the reasoning behind the importance of getting the CORRECT gearing in your "basic" T5 to start with. All T5s are NOT blessed with the same internal gearing. If you start-out with the wrong one, you will not be happy with your swap. DD

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Old 10-28-2017, 06:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Great info V8COOPMAN. I guess I will start looking for the V8 equipt Camaro. I can`t imagine that an easy chore but maybe I could get lucky. Just for the discussion, a 4cyl S10 is just too weak then? What about an S10 V6? Seems like having the tailhousing for mechanical speedo with the 6cylinder tranny would work behind a mild flatty. I`m sure you have a reason for not mentioning this. The ratios? Thanks
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Old 10-28-2017, 06:48 PM   #11
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

jd,
I build a ton , literally , of early Ford trans every year and always loved them....still
do........BUT......I did some work for a guy in Meadville Penna and delivered the job,
a 2x2 setup. I drove his '36 5 w with a T5 after installing the 2x2's, it was bliss. You
never had to compromise what gear to choose, the right gear was a shift away. Wow,
I was thinking, then we pulled onto to the 4 lane and yanked it into OD. With the
narrow bands of most flatheads you gotta wish Henry knew about T-5's.
Charlie ny
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

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Originally Posted by Charlie ny View Post
jd,
I drove his '36 5 w with a T5 after installing the 2x2's, it was bliss. You
never had to compromise what gear to choose, the right gear was a shift away. Wow,
I was thinking, then we pulled onto to the 4 lane and yanked it into OD. With the
narrow bands of most flatheads you gotta wish Henry knew about T-5's.
Charlie ny
Charlie......After actually driving one of these T5s, YOU have found-out first hand some of the advantages and pleasures of the T5, and you've even found far better words to describe the experience more succinctly than I've been able to. Coming from you, this should wake some folks up to the pleasures this trans offers. DD
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpaxton View Post
Great info V8COOPMAN. I guess I will start looking for the V8 equipt Camaro. I can`t imagine that an easy chore but maybe I could get lucky. Just for the discussion, a 4cyl S10 is just too weak then? What about an S10 V6? Seems like having the tailhousing for mechanical speedo with the 6cylinder tranny would work behind a mild flatty. I`m sure you have a reason for not mentioning this. The ratios? Thanks
jdpaxton.......A lot depends on the gear ratio and rear tire diameter that you are going to end-up running on your ride. Just about all of the 4-cylinder S-10 T5s will have a 4.03 1st gear ratio. That ratio, in all but a few combinations, will make it where your first gear is almost unusable.
The old Ford V8 transmissions of the era mostly had a 2.82 1st gear ratio......HUGE difference. That 2.95 Camaro 1st gear is mighty close to the old Ford 2.82. I'm just saying that without properly planning the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear ratios, you may be totally wasting an opportunity to make this thing really nice........see Charlie NY's thoughts just above. DD
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

how about the 4 speed s10 overdrives that the model a guys like. its shorter, 4 gears is better than 3, 5 maybe too much?
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Wasn,t there some one who made the conversion,including the adaptor from the modern fine splined transmission out put to the ford 6 spline in the u/joint.
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

I think he is referring to the '84-'87 Ford 4 speed OD transmissions.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:27 AM   #17
jdpaxton
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

Coopman great article describing the T5/torque tube. I`m not sure I would live long enough to do everything shown. I certainly wish to commend you and the others for the conversion and pics. Now I`m revisiting the New Process 3 + 1 O.D trans. in my mind. I have used this in a mid 60`s chev P.U. with wonderful results. Same size as the Muncie basically and has the chevy bolt pattern. (some of the flanges are a 1/8 too large to enter the bellhousing which is opened up. NP is available in Mopar also so get the chevy if you use the Speedy adapter to flatty) However the shifter is not internal like the T5. Has the mechanical speedo. Also works well with the low truck rear axle of 3.90. Like you, I hate to butcher up too much of the X member similarly on the 36 you were involved with. Also the Camaro tranny and the adapter from speedy have us well into the 1200 range. This is without a possible tranny rebuild. So $2000 kinda takes the fun out of the T5. The New Process from an 81 chevy van and a $200 adapter will only set you back 500.(or less) Be sure to get the shifter.
Could be the 4sp Ford tubman mentions is the less invasive swap and would work with the rear axle ratio. Thanks to all
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

The Tremec T170 RTS is a 3-speed with 4th gear overdrive that is also used in closed or open drive systems and the shifter is pretty much in the right place. This was the transmission used a lot in mid 80s Ford pickups. They also have choices in gearing to be scrutinized. Some ratios a better than others. It ain't no T5 but I like where the shifter is.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: 33 ford with muncie

There was a munce M-21 in my 5-W coupe when I purchased it in the early '70's. It really made the car a blast to drive but it was not installed correctly. The crossmember was really butchered up to facilitate installation of the transmission.
I later installed an automatic transmission.
I would like to have the 4 spd. back some day but will probably go with a 5 spd.
Either way the stock crossmember gets modified.
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