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Old 01-27-2020, 05:53 PM   #1
Werner
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Default Bad steering new shaft

Guten Abend!

I received a new steering shaft from an US dealer today. The shaft didn't fit through the lower bronze sleeve. Gray paint was brushed on the area where it was too thick. I removed the paint and see that this shaft was welded there!

This is completely incomprehensible because the steering is safety-relevant.
Has anyone heard of this grievance?
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:57 PM   #2
F.M.
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

That is a law suit just looking to happen ?? What Dealer, "PLEASE"
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

This happened to me. It's because the 7-tooth steering assemblies used slightly different length steering shafts over the 2-3 years of production. Rather than stock shafts of all the different lengths, the vendors stock one standard part and then cut/weld it to fit the order. The shaft often ends up too wide at the weld site. I had to get the machine shop helping me to turn the shaft down on a lathe to fit.
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Old 01-27-2020, 06:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

I am very surprised a vendor sold such a item. What size do you need and have a few NOS shafts..
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

The shafts in the F-100 starring box modifications are welded similarly. The weld can be x-rayed and condition can be determined. If done properly it shouldn't be of too much concern. Why did you need a newer shaft?
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

I would demand it be replaced with a NEW shaft, including freight! Unless it was advertised us being refurbished.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

I'd send that back with an invitation that they put it "out of the sun" (where the sun don't shine). As F.M. said, that is a lawsuit in the making. For the benefit of all of us, which dealer was it?
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Colin,
how long/mls have you been driving now with the welded shaft? I am unsure about the welding, but now I believe that such reworked shafts are normal.

J. Franklin,
I needed the new shaft because I had damaged the original one when I pressed on the worm wheel.

-

The description of the dealer:
"7 TOOTH STEERING SHAFT AND WORM ASSEMBLY ... 28-29
New shaft and worm assembled for the 7-tooth steering boxes.
Left hand drive. ... "

The picture shows a new shiny wave. But (now) it can also be seen that where I discovered the weld, there is gray color. Apparently all waves are made / renovated in this way.

I will report what the dealer writes about my complaint.
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Last edited by Werner; 01-28-2020 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Sue, Sue, Sue, let's sue all the suppliers out of business! Did original poster contact supplier with his concerns? Ford's own advertisement boasts, "over 611 electric weldings used on the Ford for safety", including lots of steering and brake parts. I wouldn't be as concerned about the fact it was welded, (if it's a good weld), as whether or not the fit was correct. I would certainly give the vender the chance to correct it before blasting them. They may not be aware of a problem.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

The weld is probably strong but looks terrible,they could of at least turned it down to the proper diameter.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

If the comment from J Franklin is in regards to our F100 steering box conversions, then that is incorrect. All of our 1930-31 two tooth shafts are made of brand new thick walled steel tubing and do not have a weld at all. Our 1928-29 seven tooth shaft are two pieces. The upper portions are from the original 1928-29 shaft and the lower portion is the brand new thick walled steel tubing. The two pieces are threaded (tap and die) and screwed together to the proper length required (end to end), then put on a lathe with a dial indicator, then welded completely around the tapered (V) joint. After the area where the threads are, are countersunk drilled and have two French welds done for additional reinforcement. When completed, a horn rod will still go thru our column shafts. We have used the same certified welder / machinist for over 25 years to do this process.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by David R. View Post
Sue, Sue, Sue, let's sue all the suppliers out of business! Did original poster contact supplier with his concerns? Ford's own advertisement boasts, "over 611 electric weldings used on the Ford for safety", including lots of steering and brake parts. I wouldn't be as concerned about the fact it was welded, (if it's a good weld), as whether or not the fit was correct. I would certainly give the vender the chance to correct it before blasting them. They may not be aware of a problem.

1. It is hard enough to get people to manufacture parts for Model As.


2. All this drama and talk about lawsuits does NOTHING to help us with the supply of good parts and just raises the price of all parts.

Last edited by Benson; 01-28-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Welds looks-bad, the weld itself-if done correctly is no big deal. Heck they weld drive shafts for diesel trucks that hold up to way more torque than humans will ever produce steering. My opinion.


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Old 01-28-2020, 09:44 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

I haven't driven many miles with the welded shaft, but I'm not worried about it. The machinist I used said it was fine once it was turned down to the right diameter. And as 1930artdeco said, there's actually not much force on these shafts, the weld is unlikely to fail.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:35 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Interesting as the wall of the tubing is only .170 and doing a male female thread doesn’t give a lot of room . Then add machine or grind a V to weld and now grind it all down?

If intending to use the shaft I would sleeve the area and weld the edges and also drill the sleeve and plug weld them. What is the cost of safety it is a thin wall tubing .. This being living in Chicago Home of the Pot Hole.....
I am also curious with all that work to join the two shaft and thats a bit of time , why a new shaft wasn’t just made? Cutting a taper (steering wheel) and threading it could be dont quickly and key can be machined with a woodruff key cutter. I know it was said new 30 31 shafts are made so what makes the 28 29 different. The splines on the end (worm gear) can be broached along with grinding cutting and or machining them in a simple setup on a indexing head..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Gross View Post
If the comment from J Franklin is in regards to our F100 steering box conversions, then that is incorrect. All of our 1930-31 two tooth shafts are made of brand new thick walled steel tubing and do not have a weld at all. Our 1928-29 seven tooth shaft are two pieces. The upper portions are from the original 1928-29 shaft and the lower portion is the brand new thick walled steel tubing. The two pieces are threaded (tap and die) and screwed together to the proper length required (end to end), then put on a lathe with a dial indicator, then welded completely around the tapered (V) joint. After the area where the threads are, are countersunk drilled and have two French welds done for additional reinforcement. When completed, a horn rod will still go thru our column shafts. We have used the same certified welder / machinist for over 25 years to do this process.
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Last edited by hop up; 01-28-2020 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:15 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
1. It is hard enough to get people to manufacture parts for Model As.


2. All this drama and talk about lawsuits does NOTHING to help us with the supply of good parts and just raises the price of all parts.

Thank you benson for posting that reply. Not looking at the part in question that started this thread the only qualified reply on the reason would be from the vendor or supplier of the part. Randy shared his product very thoroughly and as you said itís hard enough to get vendors to make short run parts. Iíve been working on a 30 studebaker lately and try getting parts for them . Iíve had to make them .
The Model A buyers have it easy and should be eternally grateful. Our suppliers like Snyders, brattons, Bertís, Randy gross , and many more make it easy for us.

The drama and crazy comments sometimes are exactly why I donít post much anymore along with much work to do which Iím grateful for.

I would get with the supplier and see what they say. Purchase a good shaft and install a new worm and you should be set. There are plenty available.
All the best!
Larry
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

That looks like an old repair that was run for quite a while. Weird...
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:44 PM   #18
Werner
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

Guten Tag to each other!

I don't know if I understood the comments correctly here.

I was not aware that the new 7 teeth steering shaft consists of two shaft parts that are welded together.

So I was unsettled, especially since the shaft around the welding was 0.1 mm too thick. That's why I wrote in this forum and to the vendor yesterday. The dealer anwered me today:

"Mr. Frings,
Yes, you are correct. the shaft is made in 2 pieces and then welded together. We have been using these shafts for many
years, both selling as a separate part and also using them in our steering box rebuilding service. They have worked very well
without a problem.
You are welcome to return the shaft if you want to.
Thank you!
Tom J."

I then temporarily clamped the shaft and rotated it with a drilling machine and at the same time sanded the area that was too thick with a belt sander. Hard steel, that took 1 1/4 hours.

Conclusion:
According to the seller, the welding of the shaft is correct.
The shaft was not turned off enough after welding. Therefore, it did not fit through the large bronze bushing bearing.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

There you go, good work by you! It looks like it is now good to go. Sometimes we need to work at new or old parts to make them work! All part of the fun in working on very old cars
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bad steering new shaft

In this state, if any part of the steering system is found to have been welded, the car is off the road. Same for chassis (even a cut like what is required to fit some replacement gear boxes). That makes using those weld in replacement steering balls for example, illegal.
That is not to say I haven't done it though.
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